Dream School: How Do You Find the Right College for Your Teen?

The Ask Lisa Podcast does not constitute medical advice and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have concerns about your child’s well-being, consult a physician or mental health professional.

The following transcript has been automatically generated by an AI system and should be used for informational purposes only. We cannot guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or timeliness of the information provided.

Reena Ninan
So I’m asking you this, not as a psychologist, but as a mom who already has a kid in college. Do you really need to take 22 AP classes in high school to get into college?

Lisa Damour
You do not. In fact, I have often said to my kid and other kids, you know, you do intend to go to college. You don’t have to do college in high school if you intend to go to college.

Reena Ninan
Thank you for saying that.

Lisa Damour
You’re welcome.

Reena Ninan
Because both of us have children in the ninth grade this year, and this is my first child going into high school, and we had an argument this weekend, or discussion, a heated discussion, where my husband and I were on opposite ends, where I was like, “You should be–” It’s the tiger mom in me, Lisa. “You should be taking everything you can.” How is your ninth grader doing, by the way?

Lisa Damour
Okay, we’re talking about ranch dressing, and she was killing us. She was killing us this weekend. She was telling us about a conversation she was having with another ninth grader, a boy, and somehow they got on the topic of how much ranch dressing as too much ranch dressing. And apparently, the boy insisted that the cafeteria could be waist deep in ranch dressing, and it would not be too much ranch dressing. So that’s what we’re discussing.

Reena Ninan
Well, school food, at least they’re eating it. In my days, like nobody ate the school food.

Lisa Damour
It was so horrible. But if it has ranch dressing, apparently they’ll eat anything.

Reena Ninan
But you know, I will tell you, in addition to school food, like everyone’s obsessed with college and what is gonna happen, you know? And I feel like every year since we started this podcast, it’s been like a different standard for getting into school. And our next guest, I’m thrilled to welcome, actually has a list of like 75 colleges that he’s labeled by doing research, “the new dream schools.” So I cannot wait to dig into this one. So today we’re diving right into the book that every parent of teenagers needs to get right now. It’s called Dream School: Finding the College That’s Right for You by bestselling author and higher education expert Jeff Selingo, a friend of the pod who we’ve had on before. Jeff is a New York Times best selling author, award winning journalist and Professor of Practice at Arizona State University. He’s written extensively about higher education for more than two decades, and now with this book, Dream School, he’s giving parents a roadmap to approach the college search with a little less stress. We all know the pressure. You know, families obsessing over the top 25 schools, kids feeling like futures are determined by that one acceptance letter. Jeff flips the narrative on its head. He shows us that the real dream school isn’t actually about the brand name or the prestige. It’s about finding a college where your child can actually thrive academically, socially and even financially.

Lisa Damour
Jeff, welcome. We are so thrilled to have you back.

Jeff Selingo
It’s great to be here again for both of you.

Lisa Damour
And this book, Jeff, I you know as someone who has worked in this space for so long, I am so grateful for this book, and I actually had the honor of blurbing it. I got to read an early copy and what I said about it, and I really mean it is: “Dream School is the desperately needed, level-headed college guide we’ve been waiting for.” How you feeling about it?

Jeff Selingo
I’m feeling pretty good about it. I really want to create a movement among parents to give them permission to think more broadly about what defines a good school, that it doesn’t have to be in the top 25 it doesn’t even have to be in the top 50. And what I hope to do with this book is to break some myths that we have about those top 25 top 50 schools, but also then give them the tools to make sense of what to many people, are just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of colleges that don’t make sense to them. So how do I find a good school? How do I find that kind of needle in the haystack, as a result?

Lisa Damour
I love it. Now, you open the book with the story of a boy named William who is a high achieving student who goes to Columbia, a lot of kids’ dream outcome. He realizes pretty quickly that it’s not the right fit, and he leaves. What is the biggest mistake that this story tells us about what families think about when they’re thinking about a so-called “dream school?”

Jeff Selingo
I think the tip that I have for parents is really many of us start the college search midstream. What do I mean by that? We just start putting names on a list, those names are often what we hear in our communities, which shows up on Naviance or Scoir.

Reena Ninan
Jeff, what’s Naviance and Scoir?

Jeff Selingo
So Naviance and score are popular software programs that are used in high schools that help students understand kind of where they fall into the ecosystem of higher education. So for example, themost popular feature of them are these scattergrams that show students who have a particular SAT score or particular GPA and how students from that high school fared in previous years applying to these different colleges.

Jeff Selingo
At many high schools, we don’t think about what we want out of college, what the learning environment that we want out of college, what are the activities that we want to do in college. And so for William, it was about getting into the most selective college he could get into. He placed a bet in early decision on Columbia, and he got in. And as he said, it was like winning the lottery, but the high of that win, once he arrived on campus, disappeared pretty quickly, and things he didn’t think about during the search, or things he didn’t consider that he wanted out of college during the search started to appear. Like, for example, he wanted to get into this really popular class at Columbia, and his advisor said, “Yeah, well, that probably will never happen. Maybe you’ll get in junior or senior year.” He really wanted to do undergraduate research. He had a chance to do research in high school, and he wanted to do research. And basically his advisor said to him, “Yeah, most of these professors, they only want to work with grad students.” And then among the students, he just found this competition. It was always around to get into the next club, to get into the next class, to get that a there was this achievement culture that just kept pushing him in directions that he couldn’t really find friends. He couldn’t find his kind of group of people as a result. And so he came home at winter break and he told his mom he thinks he wants to transfer. And his mom said, “Well, you’re gonna have to come up with a story then, because not many students transfer from Columbia,” and I give him a lot of credit for doing that, because he did at the end of the year, he transferred to the University of Minnesota.

Lisa Damour
Good for him.

Reena Ninan
Hey, there. You know, we are really trying to get the Ask Lisa podcast out to as many families as possible. And one of the ways you can help us right now if you can just hit the like button on what you’re watching, subscribe to our YouTube channel and then post a comment in the comment section. Every bit of interaction actually helps us reach more families who also might need the support. Okay, now back to our episode.

Reena Ninan
So Jeff, tell me a little bit more about your research on prestige, because as a parent who has been funding this child for 18 years, you know what I want more than a big, fancy school name, I want them to be able to pay their bills when they’re done with college. How do we make that happen, Jeff?

Jeff Selingo
So there are two things that I think are important about prestige, right? When we surveyed more than 3,000 parents for this book, what did they want for their children at the end of the day from college? They wanted two big things: One was they wanted a job. They didn’t want their kids moving back home, living in their basement. Second, they wanted those connections that they’re going to get at college, with friends, with mentors, with faculty members. So they wanted engagement. So let’s look at the data, then on engagement and on outcomes. First, let’s think about outcomes. David Deming, who is at Harvard, is part of the opportunities research group there that Raj Chetty and a bunch of other economists work on, they looked at the outcomes of highly selective, highly elite colleges versus everyone else, and what they found is that we tend to over index on the elite colleges. Are the outcomes better at elite colleges? Sure. Do you have a better chance of working on Wall Street or working for one of the big consultancies, or going to, you know, Harvard Law School, or one of the ivy at law schools? There’s no doubt about it. But we tend to think about the outliers there as the average. And what he found is that the average outcomes of somebody from Harvard are no different than Ohio State or UCLA or many other public flagships or other less selective private colleges.

Reena Ninan
Jeff, that is earth shattering. I had no idea about this. And I think most parents have no clue about this when it comes to colleges.

Jeff Selingo
They don’t. And I also think we believe that, well, you have to get that job on Wall Street or in a consultancy or things like that. And to be honest with you, I’m not sure that every student really wants to do that anyway. But second, and this was really was more surprising to me, and by the way, we did this research for the book. So every year for the last 20 years, Indiana University has been doing a survey called the National Survey of Student Engagement. They survey first year students, and they survey seniors at more than 900 colleges about their engagement in day to day life on campuses. That includes with peers, but it also includes with faculty in classes, in the residence halls and activities and so forth. They don’t release individual results for colleges and universities, but I said, “Okay, if I send you selectivity for 1400 colleges and universities in the US, could you match them with the 900 colleges that participate in your survey?” So we know the difference between colleges who accept fewer than 20% and colleges that accept 40% and colleges that accept 80%. And what we found was fascinating. First of all, that student satisfaction, there was not that much of a difference between students in the top 20% in terms of selectivity and the bottom 20% in terms of selectivity.

Lisa Damour
Okay, that’s huge. Like, I’m just gonna pause on that for a minute. Everybody thinks, like you get into these super elite colleges and you will be more satisfied and happier than students who get into schools that accept a much bigger percentage of their applicants.

Jeff Selingo
And we didn’t see much difference. And one other thing was around student-faculty interaction, there was actually more interaction with faculty at institutions that accepted between 20 and 40% of their applicants than there were at those institutions under 20%. More faculty interaction. The only thing that the highly selective colleges were way out in front on were internships. Students who had internships. Because they really focus on that, and students who go to highly selective colleges usually have both the financial resources and the social capital to get those internships. But there were very few differences between the highly selectives and everyone else on so many other measures of student engagement.

Lisa Damour
That’s remarkable. Okay, so one of the things you write about in this book is “the panicking class.” It’s such an incredibly useful and I think apt phrase right now, which are basically kids who are worried they’re not going to be able to replicate their parents’ lifestyle, and of course, we’re in a phase of economic uncertainty, so this has probably become even accelerated in the time since you submitted this book to your editor. But this is putting a lot of anxiety on kids, and making them anxious about this process, making them anxious about identity, affecting their confidence. What do we want to say here? What do you find to be a useful way to approach this question?

Jeff Selingo
Well, I think first of all, Lisa, is that life is long, and there’s so much turmoil in the economy right now that even a degree from a highly selective college, as many of the parents I met during the reporting process said, “it’s insurance for the changes in the job market.” Well, the thing about– You know, I think everyone’s worried about AI, especially eating those early career jobs right now, I don’t think AI is going to worry about whether you have a degree from Harvard or Ohio State, for example. It’s going to impact students no matter where they go. Really, what’s going to be most important is, what are the skills that you’re going to get as an undergraduate? Both those soft skills, the ability to communicate, ability to work in teams, the ability to write and communicate, but also those very specific hard skills that might be necessary for particular jobs. For example, you want to do data visualization as a history major, or things like that, and those types of opportunities you can get at a wide variety of schools. And I think that’s most important for families who think, “Well, this insurance policy I’m going to get, it has to be that degree from this highly selective college.” It doesn’t matter as much anymore.

Reena Ninan
So Jeff, I want to ask you, as a South Asian kid whose parents constantly compared me to everybody else, you say in your research that 61% of parents think other parents in their community actually prioritize prestige more than other things. How do we break this cycle, Jeff? How do we stop parents to be comparing all the time?

Jeff Selingo
I wish I could answer this question easily, because I run into the same issue in my neighborhood here outside of Washington, DC. You know, even the premise of this book, when I would talk to parents in my neighborhood or at my kid’s school, the premise of this book is just really hard to kind of get over that hurdle. That prestige matters, that you’re in school communities, or on the Instagram pages that students put out where they’re going to school, like that, that signal says so much in your own community. And so the advice I have is to perhaps talk less about it, talk less about where your kids are going to school or where they’re applying to during the process. I’m not a huge fan of those Instagram pages advertising where everybody in a high school goes. I know high schools love them, and I know students often do this without the school… you know, the school doesn’t necessarily endorse it all the time. But I don’t know when you all went to college, but when I went to college, we talked about it among our friends once in a while. But it wasn’t this every day throughout senior year: “Where are you going?” “Where are you applying?” “Where are you touring?” And then once you get in, these large posts that go to the rest of the world advertising where you’re going. If we could kind of reduce that conversation, I think it could have a huge impact on not only where students are applying, but where they’re going.

Lisa Damour
I love that, and it’s funny, as someone who’s around teenagers and cares for them, and is in this environment so much, I really try to hold back on asking kids where they’re going. And I try to hold back on asking their parents where their kids are going. And it’s hard, because I think underneath it, it often feels like, “Did they get into some fancy school? I want to know.” But sometimes you’re just like, your kid’s moving to another state. I’m interested in the state they’re going to, which happens to be attached to the college they’re going to. But I have found myself, and I agree with you… Adults can actually have some influence here, about not chasing that question, not asking that question, and instead saying, “How are you feeling about going to college?” can fill in that space.

Lisa Damour
Okay, so in terms of how we feel about going to college, one of the things you talk about that is so important, and I agree, is around a kid’s sense of belonging on campus. I’ve had the honor of working at a few different universities, big ones, small ones, and belonging is a big deal. Walk us through why it is so important that a kid finds a sense of belonging wherever they land.

Jeff Selingo
Well, Lisa, I think it’s really interesting right now, because in all the parent groups I’m on, whether it’s in Facebook or Reddit, there’s so many parents from the class of 2025, so their kids just graduated from high school. They just landed on campuses all across the country, and the parents are posting within a couple of days, their kids are unhappy with their choice, right? That it’s not the right place. And first of all, I want to say, “Give it time.” That sense of belonging doesn’t happen in the first three days. And I also ask them, “Did classes start yet?” And in many cases, they haven’t. So we have this sense of belonging that has to happen in the residence hall. Our roommate has to be our best friend, or we have to meet our best friend on in our hallway. And as I write in the book, the sense of belonging happens in three different dimensions on college campuses: One is in your residence hall. One is in the activities that you decide to pursue, where often you’re going to kind of find your people. But it’s also in the academic setting. And I sometimes think we forget about that. And indeed, we know from studies that students who just show up to class the first couple of weeks of college are more likely to not only be retained and stay in college over the long term and get their degree, but they have that sense of belonging that other students don’t. So one of the most simple things that students could do is, first of all, wait for class to start, and show up. Connect with other students in that class and connect with the professor.

Jeff Selingo
And that’s the other thing that’s really important here are office hours and using them and utilizing them, because I think a lot of students come out of high school not realizing what office hours are for college professors, and they think, “Well, I only have to go see the professor if I’m in trouble.”

Lisa Damour
That was me. That was my belief. I didn’t know what they were, and I was like, “You’re never going to catch me in those office hours.”

Jeff Selingo
Right! And I didn’t know that. And I tell the story about my first year at Ithaca College: I didn’t do very well on my first macroeconomics exam, and I thought I was the only one like that, because I heard all these students talking around me who had macroeconomics in high school, and I didn’t.

Lisa Damour
Who has macroeconomics in high school? [Laughter]

Jeff Selingo
And I remember a professor who, unfortunately, just passed away. And I told this story to us folks in my alumni group, that he reached out to me and said, “Jeff, why don’t you come by and talk to me in the office and we’ll talk a little bit about how you did on the exam and why and things like that.” And I thought, “Oh, my God, I must be in trouble.” And I realized in going to him that that’s what office hours are for. It’s to have those conversations. And that one act of him inviting me into his office to talk about this particular exam opened up a range of possibilities, not only with that professor, but so many of my professors over the years. And that’s the thing. The belonging research that I talk about in the book is that most teenagers get to college thinking they’re the only ones who are feeling like this. And so there’s a lot of work that colleges are doing around that first year experience to show students that they’re not the only ones, that other students are also experiencing these issues of not finding their people immediately, and it’s okay to feel that way.

Reena Ninan
Jeff, you tapped into something there. I went to George Washington University in D.C. for journalism school, and I had an incredible mentor, Professor Steve Roberts, the husband of the late Cokie Roberts. Having him as a professor continues to this day to transform my career, I have a lunch with him every time I am in Washington D.C. And you mentioned that a good marker of a good school is mentorship. But how do parents tell if the college or university their child’s applying to has good mentorship?

Jeff Selingo
It’s a great question, because there’s all these things, just like William in the introduction didn’t know or didn’t know to look for. So how do I look for mentors? First of all, talk to other students in your major. See how they talk about professors. See how they talk about their activities. See how they talk about the advisors to those activities. That’s where you’re going to get a sense of how they feel about it. Then when you go to the school, go on the official tour. But I think that we rush through tours too often. I understand you might have a limited time to see multiple campuses, sometimes in one day. I think that you should, after the tour, before the tour, during breaks, get a sense of what– especially if the school is in session, walk down the hallways with professors’ offices. Are their doors open? If they list office hours, are they actually there? See if you could sit in on a class. Do students come early and does the professor come early to talk to students? What happens after class? Does the professor just rush off and students are kind of left on their own? Professors aren’t the only mentors, but they are the people that you’re going to spend most of the time with as an undergraduate. And by the way, they’re going to be probably the first people that you meet in those first couple of days of college. Looking at how much they care about spending time with undergraduates says a lot about a college.

Lisa Damour
This is amazing. And I will tell you, I have a daughter who’s a senior in college, and she has found this. She has an advisor who takes her out to lunch. I tell her, I’m like, “That never happened to me! Not even close!” I mean, so it’s there, it can be found.

Jeff Selingo
Well, you know, Lisa, that simple act of being invited to a meal with professors, whether it’s like– and often now there’s a lot of concern about one on one interactions between professors and students, and I get that. But even like small group lunches or small dinners or dining halls. I went to school a long time ago, and the professors used to invite us over to their house. That doesn’t happen as much anymore, but we see in the research, students also feel more like adults, and they feel like they can have these conversations with mentors in a way that they’re going to have with mentors once they get into the workforce. That makes a huge difference in students’ lives.

Lisa Damour
I’m watching it. I am watching it with my kid right now.

Reena Ninan
You know, Steve Roberts would do this, Jeff. He would take every single class out for appetizers at TGI Fridays. No alcoholic drinks. He created such lifelong connection. It was just incredible. Everybody loves this man.

Jeff Selingo
Reena, I think I remember that TGI Fridays around the corner. I interned in D.C. Yes, we used to spend a lot of time at that TGI Fridays.

Lisa Damour
Okay, back to work, people! Back to work. All right, cost here. Cost is often the giant, giant elephant in the room. When we get to talking about college and kids choices, how should parents talk with their kids about money in a way that’s honest, not discouraging, not guilt inducing? How do you recommend families do this?

Jeff Selingo
Well, first of all, parents and families should really talk about money early on and kind of set parameters, set budgets, set how much they’re willing to take out in loans, how much savings they have. If they have multiple kids, how much money they’re willing to spend. Having those conversations early on is important later on, once those acceptances come and those financial aid offers come as well.

Jeff Selingo
But another important thing to remember here that we found in our research is that it’s okay to think beyond prestige if you’re going to get a deal on college. And that is one of the big changes over the last 30 years, is that I found not only in my surveys, but in the data itself, so many families who are saying, “You know what? I’m willing to pay for a certain amount of prestige. If my kids get into these five schools, I will pull out all the stops. But we’re not going to do it just anywhere. We’re not going to pay full price, even if we can. Do you want to know why? Because we want to do other things with our money, or we may need to do other things. We might have aging parents. We might have other children at home. Oh, and by the way, we know that students are sometimes struggling to launch after after college, so we might want to help them subsidize a graduate degree, or we might want to subsidize moving to a city with higher expenses and things like that.” So there’s all these other things that you might want to do with your money, and that’s okay. It’s okay to say, “You know what? We’re going to look a little deeper in the rankings, where there might be a public institution that has a great honors college that offers us lower tuition than a full-pay private.” Or there might be a lot of private colleges out there, and we know this for a fact, that are offering discounts to even people who can pay full price in order to entice them there. And that doesn’t mean they’re bad places, education wise. It just means they don’t necessarily have the biggest brand name where they’re getting inundated with tens of thousands of applications like the top of the rankings do.

Lisa Damour
It’s so important. It’s so important. And I also just want to flag we’ve had great conversations on this podcast with Ron Lieber around paying for college. So I just want to cross reference that for families, because he’s done a lot of work on the question of who’s willing to give big discounts, and how do you get them.

Jeff Selingo
I love Ron, and I love Ron’s work on this because I think most people enter this process totally overwhelmed by paying for college, and it is. It’s a huge price tag. It’s probably the most expensive thing that you’re going to pay for in life. But I think knowing your budget and knowing your parameters early on is important as a family, not just among the parents, but the parents and the teenagers, but also knowing, as Ron writes, that there are great places that offer great discounts.

Reena Ninan
As we’re talking about the high cost of colleges, you talk in the book about everyone has a Plan A, but you also need to focus on Plan B and get the kids excited about Plan B so it’s not an afterthought or they feel rejected that they didn’t get into their Plan A schools. How do you do that? How do you get them excited about Plan B that doesn’t undermine or take away from Plan A?

Jeff Selingo
Well, first of all, you need to have a backup plan. As I talk in the first chapter of the book, even since I wrote my last book, Who Gets In and Why: A Year Inside College Admissions, the admissions landscape has changed dramatically. You know, test optional admissions has meant that tens of thousands of thousands of more applications are coming to the most selective schools than ever before. Those selective schools are doing everything in their mind to get the right student that they think is the right fit, and you just may not be that student. And so I think a lot of students go into the process every year thinking, “Well, I’m going to be the one to get into Stanford or Chicago or Yale or Harvard,” you know, fill in the blank of a highly selective college. And I think that many people are surprised, especially if it’s their first child, at how difficult it is to get into some of these places. And then they scramble in the middle of the process to find good Plan Bs, good backup schools. And my take is that if you do that earlier on in the process, first of all, you might end up loving Plan B more. And I interviewed so many students who did so because those colleges wanted them, and there was something about feeling wanted. And how did those colleges want them? They had the opportunity to be in smaller cohorts that could be in an Honors College, they had access to potentially getting special scholarships that gave them money to study abroad or to do undergraduate research. Those are opportunities that aren’t just available at the most selective schools. And in fact, if you’re a great student who has your eyes set on a selective school, you actually might get those opportunities reserved for you at less selective places, and by the way, get some money on top of it.

Reena Ninan
So Jeff, you’ve written this incredible book. I’m curious what your final takeaways are. I really believe this is going to be like the Bible for high school parents and teens about getting into college. But what would you pass on to them in this moment?

Jeff Selingo
I really want people to just open up the aperture on that lens on the college search. And that does not mean that if you’re looking at a top 25 school, that you suddenly have to apply to a school ranked 200. And by the way, I hate the rankings, but I know we use them, so we’ll just throw some of those numbers out there. All I’m asking you to do is, if you’re looking at a top 25 school, look at those schools ranked between 50 and 75, or 75 and 100. You might find some hidden gems. And I have a lot of examples in the book of these 75 new dream schools. A few of them might catch your eye. Go and take a look at them. See if those faculty members are great mentors. See what opportunities might be available to you that were closed off to the Williams of the world at Columbia. You might get those opportunities to do undergraduate research, to study abroad. And you know what? One of the students that I met in chapter two starts at a very small liberal arts college, not even the top 100. It was so small I didn’t even mention it in the book, because she could easily be identified. And she ends up at Harvard Law School and ends up on the Harvard Law Review. The outcomes are there, even for those students who go to colleges deeper in the rankings.

Lisa Damour
Jeff, thank you. This has just been such a valuable conversation. I just love this book. I’m gonna hold up my copy. I love this book, and just really, really grateful that you have put so much thought and care into creating a fact base for I think what people intuit. I think a lot of people know that there are wonderful, wonderful schools that people don’t talk about so much, but you’ve actually laid out the information that families need to lean into that intuitive understanding. And I just it’s a huge gift. It’s a huge gift to families.

Jeff Selingo
Well, Lisa and Reena, thank you so much for having me on and and thank you for all that you’re doing for teenagers and their families in particular. I think that this is it’s a hard message. I won’t deny it. It’s a hard message to get people to think more broadly about colleges, but my hope is that if we just open up that aperture, even just a little, the number of places that you’re going to find that are even better fits just going to be amazing.

Reena Ninan
The book is called Dream School: Finding the College That’s Right for You. Jeff Selingo, thank you so much for joining us.

Jeff Selingo
Thank you for having me.

Reena Ninan
Lisa. I’m so happy we had Jeff Selingo so early on in the season. You know the raging Tiger Mom inside of me as having a ninth grader, I just feel he’s really reframed the conversation on colleges in such a way that no one else has no nobody’s done this work.

Lisa Damour
I mean, everybody talks about it. He really did it. And it’s, it’s a beautiful, beautiful guide. It’s a wonderful book. It is a major contribution. There’s nothing like it that exists.

Reena Ninan
So what do you have for us for Parenting to Go?

Lisa Damour
So there’s this wonderful line: “How students go to college matters so much more than where.” And I think it’s really true. You know, one of the things that we’ve talked about, and I really think about is the goal of college is to help kids grow. And some kids are ready to grow. Some kids are going to party. They’re not necessarily ready for college. But to Jeff’s work and to Jeff’s point, what’s the college that’s going to help your kid grow? If they are going to benefit from really, one-on-one interactions, maybe some giant university is not going to be the right place for them. Or, you know, I’m fascinated by what Jeff shared about there actually being so much less contact between students and faculty at the most selective colleges. So, if we think about this, how you go is more important than where you go. What college is really going to help your kid grow?

Reena Ninan
Ultimately, it really is about growth, and we kind of forget that. So thanks for the reminder.

Lisa Damour
I think it’s huge relationships, relationships, relationships. It always lands there.

Reena Ninan
I’ll see you next week.

Lisa Damour
I’ll see you next week.