How Should I Deal with My Angry, Disrespectful Son?

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The following transcript has been automatically generated by an AI system and should be used for informational purposes only. We cannot guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or timeliness of the information provided.

Reena Ninan:
Episode 170, How Should I Deal With My Angry, Disrespectful Son?
It’s a point of the year where I’m just, how fast can we get to summer? How fast?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I know I’ve said it before, but in schools we call it The Hundred Days of May, it never ends.

Reena Ninan:
You’re so right.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
It doesn’t, but it feels like it’s never going to end.

Reena Ninan:
It does, and it’s like every concert, every award ceremony, every sports event is all in the month of May is what it feels.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
It’s true, and it feels like no matter how carefully I try to track them, there’s always ones I don’t somehow manage to get on my calendar and they’re popping up and I feel caught off guard by them.

Reena Ninan:
That makes me feel so much better. Hearing that even Dr. Lisa Damour has the one event that goes past her calendar, it doesn’t make it in.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Oh, totally. I mean I’m usually pretty organized, but May actually May wins. May wins.

Reena Ninan:
Well, this couldn’t be more timely. The topic we’re talking about, which is when you’ve got a disrespectful son or disrespectful kid, how do you deal with that? What’s going on that’s causing him to act so angry?
I want to read you this letter. We got Lisa, it’s perfect for this time of year I think, or any time of year really.
“Dear Dr. Lisa and Reena, I love your podcast and your Instagram. I have a 13-year-old son. He is social, loves soccer and does well in school. Recently we’ve been struggling with anger bursts. Sudden shows of disrespect towards parents and younger siblings. My husband wants to say things like, ‘If you slam the door on me again, I will not take you to soccer practice this afternoon.’ Well, this has gotten us to where my son will angrily shout back, ‘Oh yeah, make me.’ or ‘Let’s see you do that.’ It seems to me like a battle of wills where my son keeps pushing to see if my husband will actually do the thing he threatens, like take soccer away or take devices away. To me, this seems like a bad idea. Intuitively, I feel like my son will just keep pushing and keep being disrespectful, which will trigger my husband more. However, I don’t have any other ideas or any other solutions to this problem. We would love to hear what your thoughts are on this because we’re struggling in how to deal with this. Thank you.”
Okay, so let me step back. What is going on here? We have all faced this before.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
There’s a lot going on here. Again, what a useful letter, what a detailed, useful letter.
Okay, so just to level set here about the boy’s behavior: 13, we’ve often talked about it. It is when we look at the data, the spiciest age for teenagers. It is when they are the most emotionally dysregulated and it depends, age-wise, a little bit on when they hit puberty. So it tends to be closer to 13 for girls because they hit puberty earlier and closer to 14 for boys. But again, those are average numbers, so you can easily get a kid like this little guy who is on the early side. But what’s happening for this kid neurologically is that his feelings have taken on an all new force. He might have been, it sounds like he was, more easygoing when he was younger and now when he gets mad, it is explosive in a way that is new to him and new to his family. So it’s not like, oh my gosh, what is wrong with his kid? Do we suddenly have a sociopath living with us? No, you have a 13-year-old whose feelings just went haywire as far as he’s concerned and he doesn’t know what to do about it. And then of course the family’s trying to figure out what to do about it. So that’s just where we’re starting.

Reena Ninan:
Why do the kids act this way? You mentioned 13, but what triggers someone to have this response to where they’re just angry and furious and sometimes a little vicious?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
And they mentioned family and also younger siblings like parents and younger siblings. So this little line at the start of the letter is so helpful about he’s social, he’s into soccer, he does well in school. What I’m picturing is that he, like many, many kids, holds it together really well through the day. He’s a solid citizen, a good kid. His classmates, I know none of them, many of them are annoying, I am sure. If not annoying to everybody, definitely annoying to this kid, but our kids are often so so so good through the day. It sounds like he’s having no outbursts at school. School would’ve let them know. So he’s holding it together all day with this huge bundle of intense emotions that are rising inside of him. He gets in the house and it comes out and it’s ugly and it’s inappropriate and it’s rude and he’s crossing lines. I’m not saying it’s okay, but I think that short little line at the start of the letter gives us some very useful context about the ways in which this may just be this kid trying to hold onto the, I got this image in my mind of a bucking bronco of his emotions and he’s like got it under control all day and just by the end of the day he can’t keep it under control anymore.

Reena Ninan:
How do you respond in a moment like that? Because you are so angry. I have just been disrespected. I feel like I have done everything I can for you and now I just feel like you’re just laying it on me in such a disrespectful way that I’m not going to tolerate and so I feel like I need to raise my voice. I think parents feel this like, well, what is the right thing to do in that moment?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
It is totally understandable that a parent would get mad at a kid who’s doing this, right? The kid is out of line. There’s no question and I don’t think parents can always stop themselves from having an angry response. We’re never going to move towards abusive, but angry makes sense. I think there are ways to draw a line, set a firm boundary, make it clear that this behavior is unacceptable, that don’t involve getting angry, but let’s also talk about what happens if you do get angry. Because his dad is getting angry. I think what we don’t want to have happen is to allow this behavior. We don’t want to ignore it. We don’t want to pretend like it’s okay, we don’t want to treat it like it’s nothing. We don’t want to be, for lack of a better word, we don’t want to be too soft about it because that scares kids.
I mean, first of all, it’s a wrong thing to do. Nobody should act like this. But the other thing, Reena, is that if a kid comes in the house and says something that they know is out of line and the parent for whatever reason is like, “Oh honey, would you like some ice cream?” Or whatever it is, for the kid, they’re like, what does a person have to do around here to get the adults to act like adults? And often they will take it up a notch. They’ll do a worse thing to see, they know that’s not the right response. And so it feels out of control to them if they’re allowed to act in ways that they know are wrong and nobody responds. So we’ll deal with what to do if you do get angry, sometimes you do get angry, but minimally, minimally, minimally, it is important in these moments for there to be a response like, “We do not talk that way in this house” or “I have never spoken to you like that” or “I’m going to pretend like I didn’t hear that and let you take it again” or “You need to go give yourself a little time away to pull yourself together. You come back when you’re feeling better” or “What the heck was that?” or “That is not like you.” Right? I mean there are a million ways that you can be like, whoa, stop, flag on the play. You can’t act like that.

Reena Ninan:
Okay, so when you’re talking about drawing a line, you’ve given us some great, I love a Lisa language, Lisa language gets me through so much. So you’re saying have a couple back pocket phrases when you find them exploding that you have ready to work. Can you just repeat a couple of those again? Lisa, I think it’s worth because that happened a little too fast in this conversation, give me three phrases that you think are good to use.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I think the number one, and I hope families can say this and if they can’t, we can fix it. “We do not speak to each other that way in this house.”
I think that is a very clear, you’re out of line. I think another is, “I’m going to pretend like I didn’t hear that” is a really elegant reset for kids.
I think another, and again, you know your kid, you know the moment, their sense of humor. I know parents who were like, “Excuse me?” when their kid does something like that. What was that, right?

Reena Ninan:
By the way, I’ve had that used back in my face before too. When I say this.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Of course. So, excuse me.
I think again, you can say, “Dude, you know that’s not okay. Go to your room or somewhere, get it together and come on back.” There’s all sorts of ways to do it that aren’t hot that are just boundary maintaining and truly reassuring to the kid who’s like, “Okay, yeah, that was not okay and I’m glad somebody called me on it.”

Reena Ninan:
So when we’re talking about the language that’s inappropriate to have, what other things should parents keep in mind when they’re responding to an angry kid?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
One thing I ruled out in my mind that I want to actually just put on the table because it’s important, depression in teenagers can look like irritability. It often looks like irritability, extreme irritability, crankiness, short tempered. And in this situation, and of course we’re not actually diagnosing this kid, the fact that the letter started by saying social, does well at school, enjoys soccer, without bringing it up until now. I was like, okay, I don’t think this kid is suffering from depression. Because when we see depression in this form in teenagers, they are rubbing everybody the wrong way. They are angry with everybody most of the time. It’s not just saved for home, where it is saved for home. But one thing I would want parents and caregivers to be thinking about is if you’re seeing this at home and you’re starting to hear that it’s going on in other places, there’s a very good chance that child needs to be evaluated for depression, which is the way we miss depression. We think like, gosh, this kid’s being such a jerk, and we don’t actually think about it diagnostically the way we should.

Reena Ninan:
So when you really should be concerned that this is more than just an angry teen is when you see on other maybe sports, maybe school, that bar is just not being met and something’s off all around.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Yeah. That their teachers are bugging them and their coaches are bugging and all the kids are bugging them and there’s nowhere in their world that they have an easygoing relationship with people. That’s concerning.
The kid we’re talking about here. I know he’s really probably hard to live with right now, but in many ways Reena, a very, very good sign of typical development in teenagers is when the parent goes to school and the parent, the school’s like, oh my gosh, your kid’s such a delight. He’s such a helper in the classroom. We wish we had 40 of them. And the parents were like, “Wait, my kid? Are you talking about my kid?” That’s 13.

Reena Ninan:
Oh, that’s great. Just as we’re in the thick of this. Give me a little hope. When does it turn again? When does it get better? A little bit better. Is it 15 you say?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Honestly it depends on how you play it.

Reena Ninan:
Really?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Yes. It depends for this kind of situation, it depends on how you play it. So let’s articulate those two paths. Let me tell you how to make this not get better.

Reena Ninan:
Okay?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
It’s by trying to exert one’s force and power over the child. And this is where the letter came from, that this mom is watching her spouse and he is trying to control this with threats and punishment. And this letter so perfectly describes you’re going to get what this kid does, which he’s like, oh yeah, try me. Teenagers do not like to be controlled. They do not like to be… They don’t like for adults to flex on them and use their authority and teenagers will take you down with them to make that point. And I’ve cared for teenagers who have done this, where they get in a fight with their parent and the teenager continues to mess up at school to show that they cannot be controlled or continues to do things they’re not supposed to do to show that they cannot be controlled even at their own expense.
So the way that you make this worse over time and the way that I have seen and it’s so painful, Reena, to watch relationships between teenagers and parents just turn more and more and more sour is when the parent is like, “I am the adult and you are the kid and you’re going to do what I say and I am to pull all the power I have and I’m going to use it to try to control your behavior.” I get where parents are coming from on this. It does not work with teenagers.

Reena Ninan:
What does work?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Okay.

Reena Ninan:
Because I mean there’s a whole generation of parenting that that was like, I am God. Absolutely you are low man on the bottom of the mountain, Whatever I say goes. It’s like a very, I’ve said this before in previous seasons I feel like having spent so much time in Iraq, it’s like a bathist, Saddam Hussein authoritarian. This is how we roll, but why does it not work and what does work?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
So think about it this way, teenagers are organized around autonomy. That is if you think about the major developmental force that pushes teenagers forward when things are good and going and healthy, it is the drive towards autonomy. It is the drive towards self-determination. And either you are on that train, Reena, or you are under that train. And so this dad, when he’s like, you are not going to soccer, I’m taking away this thing you like, okay, now the kid has a choice. Either the kid improves his behavior, and in his mind the kid’s mind “gives in” to the father, which goes against exactly what the kid is about, which is about self-determination, not about giving in. Or the kid is like, buddy, I’ll see you and I’ll raise you. Show me you’re going to do what you think you’re going to do. I’ll actually still be in charge of this situation. I’m going to make you do all sorts of things that you don’t want to do. The kid is, teenagers are provokable. That’s the bottom line. You can provoke teenagers pretty easily. That’s how they’re built. Saying things like, if you do this, I’m going to do this to you. Teenagers are like, oh yeah, right? Try me. That’s just how they are. And I don’t say that with any criticism or heat, it’s just the nature of being autonomy oriented for a very, very distinct period of one’s life.

Reena Ninan:
So how do we make it better? If we don’t want to go down this dark path of, I’m controlling everything, what does work and how do we make that work?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Let’s go back to what I suggested before. I think as a first pass, just give the kid a reset. Say one of those things that just lets ’em start again right away or gives them a graceful out. And the rationale for this is that most teenagers, the minute it’s out of their mouth, they’re like, oh no, I wish I hadn’t said that. And it’s just because their feelings are so powerful and so intense and their impulses are so strong. Things get out of their mouths that they shouldn’t say. And when you say, I’m going to pretend I didn’t hear that or what was that, or that doesn’t sound like you, you can sometimes course correct without it turning into a big deal.
Okay, now say you say, I’m going to pretend like I didn’t hear that. And the kid’s like, well then I’m going to say it again. Let’s say that they’re very provocative. I think still you say, we don’t talk this way.
This is not acceptable. If you have an issue, I am interested in it, but you must bring it in a civil way, and be very clear about that. And if the kid is still going, going, going and hot, you can say, I won’t engage with you like this. And I think there’s real value in making it clear, you don’t get any engagement from me. If you’re acting in an inappropriate, and I would say nasty way, engagement is reinforcing. And so to go to that, come back when you’re ready to be decent and the kid… come back when you are ready to be decent. Just make it clear you’re not going to do those things.
Usually if you just stay down that line, the kid will give up and come back hopefully and be ready to be decent. Now here’s really interesting. Sometimes the kid comes back and they’re like, “Okay, sorry about earlier. Also, will you take me over to so-and-so’s house and then also pick me up and take me over to this place. And also they’re these shoes I want and also…” And parents are like, you kidding me? High, low, high, low, high, low. Also, you’re just treating me like garbage and now you want me to do all these nice things for you.
So I think that’s a place when things have cooled off, not in the heat of the moment where you say, “Listen, we need to talk about what happened and I will do nice things for you, but not when you’re treating me like this. If you want me to do nice things for you, you’re going to have to up your game about how kind you are around here.” That is not controlling the kid you are basically saying, buddy, you make your choices. If you are going to continue to be rude, nice things aren’t going to happen. If you decide that you want to be sort of a civil and pleasant member of the family, I’ll take you to the places you want to go, but you’re letting them kind of write their own ending. But you’re offering it in terms of nice things, not in terms of taking things away. And I think that that’s the difference when we’re thinking about punishments, rewards work better than punishments. We have always known this. So have nice things that are available if the kid is acting as they’re supposed to be acting.

Reena Ninan:
Because my next question to you was, I want to have a punishment. I want to do something. But you’re saying punishments don’t work, like have the reward over the punishment?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
So ideally you can say, I’ll do these nice things for you when you’re being decent again. And that is a reward. I do think, okay, so let’s picture the kid comes in the house and let’s say they use a word. Let’s say they turn to their little sister and use a completely inappropriate word like you little and fill in the blank. So it is beyond the pale.
The kid’s hurt. You say, “That is unacceptable. Take yourself out for a minute, come back when you’re ready to be decent.” Then I think the question becomes, is there some consequence for that behavior? And truly, Reena, my instinct is this, which is to say again, try to work with the mature, thoughtful side of that kid, even if you’re not seeing it. And to say to them, where did you learn that word and what was that about? And this doesn’t feel like you and I know you know that was wrong. And how are you going to make it right with your sister? So it’s not about punishment, but it is about repair. I think that that’s really what matters is that you don’t drop it, but I think saying, give me your phone or you can’t go see your friend. I feel like having consequences that are disconnected from what happened that are just adult power flexing.
I don’t see that working well most likely with teenagers. I think instead saying the consequences, you have to do all this repair to make what you did, right? Same thing if a kid throws a big party at your house when you’re not there and damage is done, I mean this happens. I think you can say, “All right, you’ve made it clear that you can’t be trusted. You’re going to stay close to home for a little while.” So that’s connected, “and you need to fix all of this.” So I like thinking about repair related consequences more than I like thinking about what random thing can we take away from the kid to show our power?

Reena Ninan:
That is it. Because I want to flex. And I feel like in that moment instinctively, I don’t know, it’s like the human in the jungle. I’ve got to show them that I am the head of the pack here. But I like what you said that it is not about punishment, it is about repair. And if there are consequences, how do you use those consequences for repairing?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
That’s right. Okay, let’s talk about what happens if the parent gets really mad and nasty themselves, and not even nasty, but maybe they do, but gets loud. That’s not going to make it better. It will tend to escalate it more. At some point somebody’s going to have to say, all right, let’s call a timeout while we get it together.
The parent has to get it together and the kid has to get it together. Then we’re back to this question of repair. And here’s what I would have the parent ideally do, and this is pretty elaborate, but it’s important for them to do. So, I think the parent goes to the kid and let’s picture this family in this letter. And the dad might go to the kid and say, “You are right that it was a heated reaction to threaten soccer. And I regret doing that. I know soccer’s important and that doesn’t feel like the right way to respond to what you did. I owe you an apology. Also, you know that if you slam the door like that or explode in anger that sometimes I’m going to have a strong reaction to it.” So, helping… And the way we think about this is, building emotional intelligence in young people and it’s helping see others from the inside. So it’s sort of letting them in on the dad’s process. And then the dad can do the same for the boy. He can say, “I also am assuming that you had a very long day and you were very tired when you came in the house, and I understand what your sister did or what I did, what it might’ve rubbed you the wrong way. You can’t act like that. But I also know it’s not like you to do those things and we need to find a way for you to let us know that you’re upset or need space that doesn’t involve you acting in ways that you don’t feel good about.” So I know that’s a lot.

Reena Ninan:
It is a lot. But one of the greatest things you have taught me on this podcast is you need to model forgiveness and apologies to your child, which I think a generation ago, nobody did. Or you know, very few parents.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Nobody did.

Reena Ninan:
Right? You just don’t say sorry to your kid.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Exactly. So you’re saying, sorry, you’re also modeling. Here’s how I think you saw my behavior. Here’s an inner explanation for my behavior. And then you’re flipping that around, here’s how I saw your behavior. Here’s what I think an inner explanation is for your behavior. So it’s really trying to be, let’s think about what was happening inside of each of us in that moment on our way towards repair. And I think Reena, if we had sort of a headline for this piece, this episode, it would be how do we help kids repair when they’ve done something they shouldn’t have done? That should be our governing orientation here. Not how do I make them be better? How do I punish them for what they did? How do I help them repair?

Reena Ninan:
I think that’s going to be a whole new episode we’re going to have for the next season. I just feel it already because that’s a good one. And it’s one that I think parents don’t think about. I don’t think about that often.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
It matters.

Reena Ninan:
It really does. I can understand why.
I want to step back for a second. Is there anything else we haven’t thought about in this moment of anger where the parent’s heated, the kids heated, that you want parents to keep in mind?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I’d wonder how much sleep this kid’s getting.

Reena Ninan:
Great point.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
When we look at kids who are dysregulated, the best asset we have for emotional regulation is a good night’s sleep. You know this Reena, I mean the minute you have a kid, I mean the toddler who misses their nap is a complete beast.

Reena Ninan:
Or the 45-year-old mom who doesn’t sleep for two nights in a row too, I will say it goes around.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
So actually, you know I’ll look for any chance to bring up sleep, I’d wonder how much sleep this kid is getting.

Reena Ninan:
Lisa, this is great. This is something everybody deals with, everybody deals with. And in that moment we feel, often we walk away not having felt like we did the right thing and not sure what the right thing is to do in that moment. So this is a great guide to all of that. What do you have for us for Parenting To Go?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
So for Parenting To Go, I want to rest for a minute on the fact that overnight, what used to work to control kids’ behavior stops working when they become teenagers. So, where the dad is going, where he’s like, if you do that again, I’m taking away soccer, probably worked when the kid was 9 or 10. “Oh no, I’m sorry. I don’t take away soccer.” That that’s how younger kids can be disciplined. And what is so tricky is that one night they go to bed and the magic teenager fairies come and turn them into a teenager and it can happen anywhere. 10, 11, 12, 13, and the kid does something wrong and the dad says, I’m taking away soccer. And the kid goes, try me, right? And it comes out of nowhere. And that is why when we get to teenagers, discipline looks different and discipline looks like, I think you’re better than this and I’m going to give you a chance to show me and I will do wonderful things for you. But only when you’re being civil and yes, you’ve done a wrong thing and your consequence is you’re going to have to repair it. But it stops being about force and control from the parent. And it starts being about helping that young person feel good about themselves by making things right.

Reena Ninan:
So many great tips and things to think about that I think you unpeel these different layers that I don’t realize in the moment I’m going through and the things that I’m doing that I’m not even aware of as a parent that I’m doing.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Nobody is. It’s so intense and it’s so hard when your kid’s being unkind. So it’s not an easy job. It’s not easy by any measure.

Reena Ninan:
So grateful to have you by our side on this one, on all of them. Next week, Lisa, we’re going to talk about privacy, another issue where parents struggle with, am I getting this right? And especially leading into the summer. It’s a great topic to have. So we hope everyone will join us next week as we talk about what and how much privacy teens should have. I’ll see you next week.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I’ll see you next week.