My Son’s Friends Are Sending Him Inappropriate GIFs. How Do I Help?

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Reena Ninan:

Episode 202, My Son’s Friends Are Sending Him Inappropriate Gifs. How Do I Help?

Lisa, we have this conversation, you and me, every January. I do not like winter, and I feel like I have what is that called? The seasonal… 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Oh, seasonal affective disorders? 

Reena Ninan:

Yes. Because I like the sun.

I like the warmth. So so give me something. Like, how do I get through this? I feel like it’s too cold, and I just don’t feel happy. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Well, you know, there’s that saying, if you can’t get out of it, get into it.

Reena Ninan:

No. Tell me what. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah. So maybe, like, go buy yourself a really nice new winter sweater that you’re gonna be so excited to wear. 

Reena Ninan:

Oh, gosh.

You you know how retail therapy really helps me? 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

It is a form of therapy. I’m not gonna I’m not gonna challenge that. 

Reena Ninan:

Gosh. Okay.

Well, I like that. What is it? Get into it? What?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

If you can’t get out of it, get into it. 

Reena Ninan:

If you can’t get out of it, get into it.

Alright. Well, it’s also kinda fitting into this topic because I don’t wanna talk about this because it’s such an uncomfortable subject. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Nobody does, Reena. Nobody does. 

Reena Ninan:

And I think it’s an important one.

In fact, our 1st season, you wanted to talk about porn. And I’m like, I don’t know anybody who wants to talk about porn and parents, but it’s sort of one of these silent things that it’s important to talk about. Let’s get right into this letter. 

Dear Dr. Lisa, 

2 years ago, my 13 year old got his first cell phone with access to WhatsApp, a browser, and YouTube. Before giving him the device, we signed an agreement, and we were clear in the rules that had to be followed.

We specifically said something about pornography and access to it in the sense that it was off limits and not age appropriate. We also agreed that sometimes we would monitor his device with a, quote, parenting app. One day, we found out that one of his friends from school had sent him 2 Gifs of pornographic content. At the time, my husband had a talk with him and he was told he had to erase those Gifs and tell his friends not to send that content to anyone. We thought we had moved past this, but this week, 2 other pornographic Gifs were sent to him by the same boy.

He didn’t tell us. We found them. And, again, we told him that even though he had not sent these images, he should not, under any circumstances, keep them or distribute them. We don’t know what to do, and our objective is really to protect him as much as we can and also to teach him how to responsibly navigate on these waters. At his age, all he wants is to belong with his friends, and we understand this.

Any help is greatly appreciated. We wanna do this the right way. Thank you. 

Okay. First off, why are they sharing them?Is there, like, nothing better to share than pornographic Gifs? Like, why do it? 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Oh, man. Why are they doing it? There’s a lot of reasons kids do it.

Being a psychologist, I’m gonna make sort of a psychological inference around this. It’s pretty upsetting for kids to see porn. It’s exciting often and also upsetting side by side. 

Reena Ninan:

But why? Get explain the upsetting part. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah.

The porn that is out there is, by and large I’m actually gonna kind of loosely quote a research paper, extraordinarily violent and degrading, almost always towards women. So it’s not soft erotica. It’s not, you know, romantic by any measure, I would say. It is, it all looks like rape.

It’s really intense. It’s really overwhelming. I think it’s often overwhelming for adults to look at. I cannot imagine what it feels like for kids to look at it, and so I think, you know, one of the things that we know operates is that sometimes when a person’s overwhelmed, they’ll share the thing to sort of not have to feel alone with that overwhelmed feeling. Like, it’s terrible for them, and it’s terrible for the kid who’s, like, opens their phone and now is, like, right in this, you know, yucky space with the kid who shared it.

But I think that can be part of what inspires it is like, I don’t wanna be in this, you know, weird situation alone. Like, you’re with me. And, of course, because it’s porn, it’s also tinged with all this excitement. Right? It’s also fun.

And kids have always been curious about sex and kids have always, you know, wanted to know more about what’s happening between, hopefully, adults, you know, in, you know, behind doors. And I think so much about, like I bet there’s very few middle age men who can’t tell you a story about who had the playboy and where it was kept. Right? 

Reena Ninan:

Totally. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

So this is where we’re at with it now. 

Reena Ninan:

Lisa, why do you think it is that this boy didn’t tell his parents about the gif the second time they came in?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

I feel so bad for this boy. Right?

I mean, I’m gonna assume he is really just an innocent bystander to this. You know, from the way this letter was written, it sounds like the parents, you know, handled it well, took it seriously, and, you know, were like, this is a no. This is a don’t. Tell this kid to knock it off. Right?

And then, of course, the friend didn’t knock it off. The friend did it again. So this letter so sensitively acknowledges, like, this kid’s in a jam. Right? This kid is in a jam.

He is stuck between a kid who is persisting and crossing a line, which at some level tells you something about that kid. Right? This kid isn’t always gonna follow the rules. This kid isn’t gonna do as told. And parents who have said, tell him he can’t do that anymore.

So this boy is, like, really stuck betwixt in between. And, you know, I can imagine he’s probably like, let me just cross my fingers that they’re not gonna find out that this is still going on because I don’t wanna take this friend on. I don’t wanna get into it with this kid. 

Reena Ninan:

Yeah. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

But it’s hard because it sets up a condition at home where it could feel in a family like the kids being dishonest or the kid’s being sneaky when, in fact, the kid is in a terrible jam.

Reena Ninan:

You know, there’s a part of me that’s like, here’s the horrible parenting moment that I would have done if I didn’t have you in my life. I would have, like, deleted this kid’s number, not let him have any access, blocked the kid because you know why, Lisa? There are legal ramifications to what is happening that these kids are not aware of. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

There could be. There could be.

Right? The legal side of this is so murky and so messy. I am not a lawyer. I’m not a lawyer. But, you know, this kid seems to be finding gifs or gifs and sending them.

You know, this happens all the time with photos of a kid in your class. Photos of a classmate that are getting passed around. I think the legal jeopardy is much higher if it’s like a known person whose photos are being shared against their will. The question of the legal jeopardy for minors is the murkiest thing on the entire planet. Some states have moved forward with laws that are just for kids because otherwise, they’re looking at laws that are for trafficking, you know, child pornography, which are a very particular kind of law.

But you are absolutely right. As soon as we are talking about the sharing of pornographic images, and then, of course, if we’re talking about the sharing of pornographic images of minors, much less minors, you know, I mean like it is a terrible road to be on. And, of course, a parent would have a reaction like the one where you describe, which is like, oh my god. I am steering you off this highway with all the power I’ve got. 

Reena Ninan:

Yeah.

That’s exactly how I feel. Lisa, I wanna ask you, because we are living in this AI world, what do you do if kids, you know, they’re discovering AI and they’re discovering porn at the same time? What do you do if you get an experience where they’re putting pornographic images into some AI machine that’s spitting them out and then distributing them via text thinking it’s funny. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Okay. So, right, this is where we get into a whole new very new and frightening and unclear universe where we are hearing about kids who are taking images of classmates. So far, I’ve only heard of female classmates, And they’re able to use the video capacities of AI to create porn of their classmate and then share it.

And this is horrible. This is horrible. This is devastating. This is wildly destructive. I would like to just put my head in the sand about it, Reena. I would like to just say, like, well, it’s probably not really happening. It is totally really happening. So one thing we wanna think through is, like, what do you do if you become aware that your kid has been sent? I mean, this is I just hate saying these words, deep fake AI porn about someone they know. Right? Like, that I think this is a question we need to seriously consider. So first and foremost, I think you notified the authorities yesterday. Right. 

Reena Ninan:

What? 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah.

Reena Ninan:

Even though wait. Wait. Wait. Even though a kid, you know, was totally innocent, but it’s a deep fake of somebody in porn and it’s not really them, you say notify the authorities? 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Well, I’m thinking here if if it’s deep fake porn of a kid in their school.

Reena Ninan:

Yeah. Someone they know. Yeah. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Someone they know. Right?

I this has, people have to stand up. Right? So my first step thinking this route would probably be to call the school and say, are you aware of this? Aware that there is a deep fake point of one of your students going around.

I would I would probably start there. 

Reena Ninan:

Okay. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Not naming names, not, you know, just seeing where they’re at. And then if the school is like, what? We have no idea.

I think the parent might take a beat. Look online for you know, like, really start to look this up. Like, what are the ramifications of being the person who reports? I mean, you know, take a minute to really study up on this, and then make a very informed decision about how to move forward. I think if the schools like we know, the school may have their own guidance about what they need families to do to help them shut it down, and I would take that very seriously.

And and I think this is a great time to remember. Schools and parents are partners. And so if parents have information and the school is asking for their help, I think it’s something that we need to take very seriously. So, you know I’m pretty not reactive. Deep fake porn of a kid in your community, like, that is to me a 100% on fire, and it is something I mean, deep fake porn of a kid anywhere, right, is a 100% on fire. But, of course, if it’s someone in your community, you have an obligation to take steps to shut that down. 

Reena Ninan:

That is really good to know. That is really good to know. What can parents do to kind of not have to go down this road?

What is the conversation we should be having with our kids about porn? 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

When you said, look, we do not have to go down this road, I just kind of winced. I don’t think you can guarantee you’re not going down this road, and I hate that. I think we can take steps to filter porn, and I think that’s my recommendation that adults do that.

You know, that we use any variety of mechanisms. And, actually, Common Sense Media, which, you know, I’m such a big fan of, has a wonderful article about how to block porn, and we’ll put that in the show notes. And I recommend people check that out. So I think minimally, minimally take steps to reduce the likelihood that your kids are gonna stumble across porn. I think then the next step is the minute your kid has access to a browser or any of their friends have access to a browser, you do need to have a conversation where you’re saying something like, okay, now that you and or your friends have access to browsers, there’s a very high likelihood you will see pornography. Okay. A lot of kids aren’t even gonna know what that is. So you also need to say, this is pictures or videos of people having sex. 

By 10 or 11 or 12, as soon as that, you know, browser barrier has been broken Yeah. We have to get out in front of this. And say to them, it’s, you know, pictures or videos of, you know, people having sex. And then I think we also need to say, I hope you don’t come across this, but if you do, it’s gonna be very upsetting to you. It’s usually very violent. It’s usually very overwhelming. Just so you know, this is not what goes on in loving relationships, but you may see it, and we’re here for you if you do to answer any questions you have and to help figure out how you don’t have to see it again. 

Reena Ninan:

Okay. So as soon as they have broken the browser barrier, I like that term, you have got to talk to them about sex and about porn and that there’s a difference between the 2 and it might be disturbing. And by telling them that, are you sort of validating the feelings that they might be experiencing and before they get there? Because I know some parents are like, I don’t wanna talk about it because I don’t wanna open up that door. They don’t know about it. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Well, the door to kids being curious about sex is inherently open. I think that what you’re making me think about is another piece of this conversation. You probably don’t wanna try to have this whole conversation at once. It’s gonna be a lot for your kid. Where you say, you know, but kids go looking for porn, and part of why they do is because they’re curious about sex. And, like, of course, they are. So you will have a time where you may be curious about sex.

Here’s how we want you to handle this. Feel free to ask us questions. We’re gonna get some books, and we’re gonna give them to you. And you can read those on your own time. Okay.

Your kid is now at this point, like, how much longer is this conversation going on, and how do I get out of it? 

Reena Ninan:

Totally. Get me out of here. Yeah. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

But the that’s those are ways that we can we can sort of say, like, it’s not the curiosity about sex is not the issue. The going to pornography to try to answer your questions about sex, that’s where we wanna draw the line. So what about the sort of peer friendship implication for the boy? If the parent makes a big deal, you know, this is still high school or middle school, you know, you don’t want to rock the boat with kids. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

It’s tricky.

Right? It’s really tricky because, of course, these parents do not want this, you know, I’m gonna put it in finger quotes friend to keep sending all of these really alarming and disturbing images to their kid. And so now their kid’s in a bit of a pickle. I’m gonna go back to advice that I seem to be giving a lot these days, which is offer to let the kid blame their good behavior on you. So here’s another time where I would put on the table with this kid.

I would say to them, well, here’s an option. If you want to tell your friend that we, you know, keep monitoring software on your phone or monitoring your phone somehow, and we saw this, and we are close to calling your friend’s folks. And if your friend sends this again, we’re gonna call his folks. You feel free to let him know that. 

Reena Ninan:

That could actually be a good deterrent.

I mean, I feel like that’s a good halfway step without isolating the kid totally socially. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Totally. And the parents, they can say to their own kid, we’re not a 100% sure we’re gonna pick up the phone and call his folks if this happens again, but you should feel free to tell him that that is an option. And that, Reena, actually, thinking more broadly about the issue of kids demanding stuff, sending stuff. Right?

This happens between kids and has been going on for a long time now, unfortunately, where kids are you know kid’s sext, which is, you know, got its legal implications, but there’s also kids who pester their peers to send nude photos or send unsolicited photos. I have often, when I’m helping with those situations clinically, you know, I have advised teenagers. You know, if there’s a kid who’s harassing them for photos, I’ve advised them to say, if you keep it up, I’m gonna have my I’m gonna show my folks what you’re doing. Like, knock it off. So not all kids are gonna be into that or wanna, you know, involve their parents or even threaten to involve their parents.

You know, obviously, blocking that kid who’s harassing you is an important thing. And then the same thing. Like, you know, kids will send photos that nobody wanted to see of, you know, their intimate parts of their bodies. And again, blocking the kid is always a good place to start. 

Reena Ninan:

So it sounds like from this episode, what I’m hearing from you is you’ve got to have these conversations early with your kids to make them aware.

Even if you might not wanna open the door, at some point it could be opened and it’s better to get them aware ahead of time. And the second thing is giving them options of, if this happens, here are some things that you should do and be aware of and also even talking a little bit about the legal implications. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

100%. And and I think what’s really hard, Reena, is we don’t wanna talk about porn with our kids. Our kids do not wanna talk about porn with us.

Nobody wants to have this conversation, and so it’s very easy for everybody to avoid it while kids are trying to navigate incredibly complicated and upsetting waters all by themselves. And so what I’m asking of us is a really hard thing to do, which is to bring up the conversation that nobody wants to have and that your kid may not see coming and definitely doesn’t wanna have. It is still better for them to hear about it from you first, to know that you are their partner in trying to understand human sexuality and also not become overwhelmed by images that are sent to them unwittingly, you know, that they didn’t wanna see. They had to hear about it from us, and we have to sort of be brave and do this. 

Reena Ninan:

Is there anything else, Lisa, that you want parents to know about this conversation?

You’ve always drilled the importance of having this, but what else are we not thinking of that might be important for parents to know about this type of a situation? 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

The other thing that hasn’t come up that’s so essential is checking in with this boy about what he saw. Of course, it’s so upsetting to the adult. Right? Like, oh my gosh.

Why is this on your phone? Why is this kid sending this? You know, you go running down a road that makes a ton of sense of, like, how do we shut this down, and how do we keep this from happening again? But the reason I don’t like for kids to be looking at porn is that it is I I don’t you know I don’t use this word lightly. It is often traumatizing to them to see porn.

And by traumatizing, I mean, it overwhelms their ability to cope. They cannot unsee it. It is really upsetting. Reena, I will tell you, when my kids were little, in short order, I took care of 2 different cases in my practice where a young kid, like 6, 7, 8, had been at a sleepover at a friend’s house, and an older sibling, in both cases, an older brother, thought it would be really funny to show pornography to the little kids. Little kids, of course, are blown out of the water by it and feel tremendous shame.

Right? There is, you know, there’s an awareness that there’s shame that is caught up in this. Don’t say anything to their family. Don’t sleep for 6 months. And then finally, like, it all comes flowing out. Like, I saw this horrible thing. And so we have to do a couple things here. First of all, I made a rule on the spot in that moment that my kids were not actually my little when they were little, not allowed on technology in anybody else’s home. I tried to make it really clear that you know if they were gonna have a playdate with a friend that if the friend was like, let’s look at the computer, I tried to make it really easy for my kids to say I’m not allowed on any technology that’s not doesn’t belong to my family. 

Reena Ninan:

But it’s so much harder with teens.

Right? You can’t really do that when a teen is going over in a teen’s house. Right? So but you’re saying in the early days, that’s a good policy. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

It’s a good policy.

But with this kid who has been sent stuff that he, you know, let’s presume, had no intention of seeing. Yeah. I think once you deal with trying to shut it down and trying to talk with him about, you know, what the legal ramifications may be of having something like this, you know, and this can take 14 different forms. It will have 14 different legal ramifications, but really thinking that through and having that conversation. Then, and maybe again, not in the same conversation, there is value in checking in and saying, okay.

I was pretty freaked out by that image. You know, what I saw there, like, it was I had this reaction, you know, and share what your your reaction is. What was it like for you? Are you okay? Are you okay?

What questions do you have for me? Not do you have questions. What questions do you have for me? Go back and love on that kid who opened his phone to check baseball scores and instead saw something that may very well have left him feeling deeply disturbed and also may have also left him a little turned on. And he’s also trying to figure out what to do with that feeling.

So there’s a conversation to be had. 

Reena Ninan:

I’m almost embarrassed to say that thinking about the child’s well-being and how this could have impacted them emotionally was not my first thought because I’m thinking of all the legal ramifications that could totally derail their life and our lives. Right? But that is such a great point.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

I think the order in which you’re thinking about it is the order in which most parents would think about it. Like, how do I stop this? How do I make sure that there’s not some terrible ramification that my kid will never be able to shake? You know, our instincts are gonna go there, and and and that’s okay. You know, we wanna try to handle those well and get those taken care of so that we can then slow down and be like, dude, that was some pretty weird and creepy stuff that you saw.

What are you thinking? 

Reena Ninan:

Wow. This I just was just really comprehensive and in a great way of really looking at this 360 and the things that I think we might not, as parents, be be thinking about that we need to take care of. 

So, Lisa, what do you have for us for Parenting To Go? 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

For Parenting To Go, I think anytime a conversation lands in your lap about images that are being shared digitally, it’s a great time to have a conversation about sexting.

It’s part of adolescents’ lives. And my version of this conversation is to say to your kid, regardless of their gender, you are not to send photos that you would not want your grandma to see, and you are not supposed to ask for photos that you would not want your grandma to see. I think so often we focus on the don’t send. We don’t nearly as often focus on the don’t ask. It is really important that we make both of those rules because if you can’t send them, you can’t be asking for them.

Reena Ninan:

Rules and things on texting that you never thought you needed to have a conversation with your child. It’s so important. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah. And definitely didn’t wanna have the conversation, but still need to have the conversation. 

Reena Ninan:

Tell me about it.

Alright Lisa, I’ll see you next week. 

Dr. Lisa Damour:

I’ll see you next week.