Weed’s Legal. How Do I Talk With My Teen About It?

The Ask Lisa Podcast does not constitute medical advice and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment. If you have concerns about your child’s well-being, consult a physician or mental health professional.

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Reena Ninan:

Episode 167, Weed’s Legal. How Do I Talk With My Teen About It?

So a great topic, weed.

I think weed has sort of a, oh, it doesn’t really matter sense. In some places it’s illegal, in some places. Like what do you make of this?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Well, it’s complicated to say the least, and this is something that the landscape has changed really quickly on it. And legalization has made these conversations with our teenagers, much different.

Parents used to be able to fall back on the fact that it was illegal as a reason for kids not to do it. Of course, it’s still illegal for teenagers, in the places where it’s legal, it’s not legal for our high school students. But Reena, one thing I will tell you is even for kids in states where it’s not legal, they sort of feel like it kind of is, and I’ve even tested this with really smart and really earnest high school juniors. I’ll be like, but weed’s illegal. But they’re like, but not really. And I’m like, okay, but even if it were legal in this state, it’s not legal for you. They’re like, yeah, but it kind of is. Like they really see it fully under the umbrella of legality at this point.

Reena Ninan:

There’s so much here, and I know you wanted to take this up even after our really powerful episode a couple weeks ago on fentanyl, we thought we’d take up weed as well.

I want to read you this letter, Lisa. It says, dear Dr. Lisa, I have two daughters ages 11 and 14, and my 14-year-old is in a friend group that’s experimenting with cannabis. They’re all athletes and good students, but they’re also a bit wild and curious. We live in Boulder, Colorado where cannabis is everywhere and quite normalized. In fact, my husband and I both use cannabis medicinally and recreationally from time to time. It’s not a regular part of our life, but it is also not a secret. Since cannabis has been legalized in our community, it’s become as normal as drinking wine. I know that my teenagers don’t feel like it’s a big deal at all. I’m writing to you because I’m also confused. I have educated my kids over and over about brain development and waiting until they’re older to experiment with the substance that changes the way they think and feel. That said, I know how kids are, and that curiosity and peer pressure will often outmatch everything they know to be true about health. No matter what I say, they’re going to find a way to get cannabis regardless. And I get nervous about lace drugs, too strong, and doing it in an unsafe way. I do not want to be the parent that allows illegal substance use at my home. I’m very clear about that. But what about helping them get stuff that’s not laced? Ugh. Even those words come out and I’m cringing, I feel stuck, and I want my kids to stay open with me. Can you please help?

There is so much here, but I want to first ask you, Lisa, is the parent right to be concerned?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yes.

Okay, so let’s just break down the science real quick on what we know about marijuana and the developing brain. And this is important because this is really what matters is health and safety, and this parent knows it.

We have studied the impact of marijuana on the developing brain and we’ve studied it over decades and we have very clear evidence that it harms the developing brain and developing brain, I mean age 24, 25, the brain is still developing. And in that same way that when we’re pregnant, we don’t ingest any substances because there’s a developing brain and it’s very vulnerable to damage. The same is true with the adolescent brain. It is growing and changing, which makes it vulnerable to damage.

If I were making the laws, and we’ll come back to legality and safety and how they are not the same thing, I would not make it that marijuana becomes legal at 21, right?

If that doesn’t even line up with the science we have. Actually, for safety, where laws are often not in correspondence with safety, we should even push it later into development.

So this is true, and what we also know is that when people stop using marijuana, their brain doesn’t necessarily recover, that the damage can be done.

Okay? Now here’s the really super scary part. These data were based on the marijuana you and I grew up with. The marijuana that is available now is six to seven, if not more times more potent than what there was available in the past. These are highly, highly curated forms. The mom worries about it being too strong. That is actually a very realistic concern. So there’s more intense marijuana that was in the past. And then also the delivery devices are different that kids are using. They call it dab pens. They’re vaping it, which questions of concentration that are confusing there. They’re eating it. You and I did a great episode on edibles. When kids are eating it, it’s very hard for them to know how much they’re getting and they often don’t feel something right away and then just keep eating more and more and then end up in the emergency room.

So, yes, this is not a baseless concern.

Reena Ninan:

So I want to step back for a second. First off, a couple of things I’m hearing from you. One is that telling the kids about how their brain is not fully developed until 25, and this can have significant impact, talking about how the change in weed, how much stronger it is and more potent. But I want to step back for a second and look at the legality of it all. First off, it’s not legal in all 50 states right now, but can you tell us how legalization has changed the landscape on pot?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

So it’s interesting. I was like, oh my gosh. The second it becomes legal, kids are going to just start using it wildly. And we actually, to be honest, have not seen that trend or certainly not as in the direction I thought it was going to go. But here’s what we are seeing, when it becomes legal in a community, one of the things that happens is advertisements for it. And this is its own concern that there’s lots and lots of ads. And it’s interesting, we just legalized it in Ohio and I’m starting to see ads, billboards on the highway. If you’re in states where it’s legal, you drive down the highway, there’s tons of billboards. I am from Colorado where it’s been legal for a long time. You drive down the street, there’s tons of advertising for dispensaries as you drive around, what we’re seeing is that the more advertising there is in a community, the more dense the advertising, the younger the age of experimentation for kids.

Reena Ninan:

So when kids see these billboards, they think it’s okay because it’s on a billboard and it makes it more acceptable.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

It norms it. And you know how I feel about norms. Right? When kids see this all around, it makes it seem like not a big deal. And so kids are trying it younger as a function of more exposure. Okay, now interesting like asterisk on this advertising issue, Reena, have you noticed that when you drive down the highway you do not see ads for alcohol?

Reena Ninan:

It’s very true.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Almost never.

Reena Ninan:

Yes.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Almost never.

Reena Ninan:

I think you’re right. Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Okay. Advertising alcohol is a highly regulated thing, and what the FTC requires is that you cannot advertise alcohol unless you can guarantee that the population you’re advertising to is, it’s like some funny number, like 71% or more over the age of 21.

And you cannot use anything in your ads that appeals to kids. No cartoons, nothing like that. So we have got this and we’ve just lived with this. We don’t even notice it anymore. We’ve got these highly regulated ads around alcohol that are designed for exactly what I want them designed for, which is norms, right? That we’re not norming alcohol use for people under the age of 21. We’re not making it appealing to them with cartoon stuff. Reena, you drive down the highway in states where it’s legal. Oh, also, actually one other important caveat on the alcohol ads. You can’t advertise within 500, this is in Ohio, within 500 feet of a school or a church or any other place where you’re expecting to see lots of kids. So again, that puts a real limit on things like highway ads or things like that. You drive down the highway in states where marijuana is legal, it is a total free for all. And often there’s sort of goofy, funny, playful, cartoony stuff associated with it. So we’ve got two problems. One that there are ads, and the other is, as far as I know, the regulation on these has not caught up.

Reena Ninan:

That’s interesting. I had never thought about that fact about the ads could really make a difference in norming this behavior. What else do you think works in getting through to kids?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Well, I think then parents really have to make a decision about how serious they’re going to be about their kids not using marijuana.

Reena Ninan:

Yeah.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

I think that that’s a personal decision families have to make. And I’m going to lay out several, from most severe to a less rigid attitude. If parents want to say, “Do not touch this stuff, do not touch this stuff. If you’re getting what you think you’re getting, you’re still getting something that can harm your developing brain and you have one brain for the rest of your life, don’t mess with it. And you may not always be getting what you think you’re getting, right? It can be laced with any variety of things. Of course, fentanyl being the most horrifying of all, but there’s plenty of other stuff that could end up in there.” And this parent is also worried about that. A parent could say, “We’re going to be checking on this. We’re going to either be testing your urine or your hair.” And hair can pick up use over a long period of time, or it can go back several months. I think there’s also the possibility that hair can pick up if the kids around you are using. And so it becomes that there’s just, you’re inhaling the smoke from other kids. I think urine can pick that up too.

Reena Ninan:

Sorry, Lisa. Are these tests easy to get for parents?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

I think pediatricians can help connect parents with them if they want ’em. And so if a parent wants to take a very, very hard line on this, which I certainly can see the case for, they can say to your kid, “We’re not messing with this. And so what we’re doing is giving you a giant excuse to use with everybody, which is that we’re going to be checking you. And so tell your friends, all of your freedoms hinge on having clean tests and you’re going to make your decisions when you leave this home, but we want to keep your brain as safe as possible up to that point.” So that’s one very hard line.

Reena Ninan:

Do you find the brain talk helps by talking to them about development?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

I think. Okay, so then we can back it down one level, which is really trying to get kids clear about the potential permanent damage that can happen here. And so if a parent wants to take it down a notch and not necessarily be standing there with the urine testing cup, I understand. And here I think we just say, and there’s something so beautiful in this letter. These are athletes, these are good students. Here I think we say “You using marijuana or any other substance is going to undermine what you care about, which is doing well in school and doing well in sports. And so if you’re serious about these things, don’t get anywhere near it. And how can we help you? Do you want to blame us? Do you want to tell people we’re testing you even though we’re not going to do it? Do you want to always be in season so you can say, look, can’t, my coach has said no, we can’t mess around with anything.” So you can have more of a collaborative conversation about kids protecting themselves and then the parent thinking with them about strategies to help manage in the moment when as this letter says, the peer group is using.

Reena Ninan:

In this letter, the parents say that they’re also open, that they’re using it medicinally and recreationally. What’s your take on that?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Okay, so this is interesting and I’m glad that that was part of the letter because I think that’s very realistic. A lot of adults use marijuana, legally or not.

So you can just see the conversation where the parent’s like, all right, kid 14, no, go on marijuana. And the kid’s like, I’m watching you guys use it. I’m watching you guys use it. Okay. What the parent should feel comfortable saying back is, you are right. And there are some critical contextual factors. Number one, we have old middle-aged brains that are not vulnerable to damage. And so in that way, we are making a choice that keeps us safe, right? Always make it about safety. And then number two, when we’re using, we’re home and we use it like we use wine, we use it to sort of enhance our lives, make us feel better, but we’re not doing it in places, like we’re not at some random party. We’re not getting in cars. If anytime you use a substance that alters your judgment, you got to be doing it in a place that’s safe. So we do that here at home.

Reena Ninan:

So really talking about the safety issue.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Safety, safety, safety.

Reena Ninan:

About where you do it.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Where you do it, and where your brain is developmentally. And so the parents can say, “All that matters to us is safety, and we go about this in a way that is safe. For you at 14, there’s no safe version of this.”

Reena Ninan:

There is no safe version of this at 14. Okay.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Nope.

Reena Ninan:

Is there an argument to be made for parents who support safe drug use but not too much, not laced? Is there such a thing?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

This is really tricky and you can hear this parents struggling with this. I don’t want to be the house that is providing the substance.

And I know that parents really do have this question because they sort of feel like, if my kid’s going to use and it is now, the landscape is so tremendously dangerous, better for them to use under my roof and with my support for doing it in a way that is safe.

And you can picture how one might reason to this. I, the adult can go get it from the dispensary. I, the adult can know what we’re talking about in terms of dosing, if it’s going to be used in a edible form or some other form. And so, I the adult want to give my kid, if they’re going to experiment, they should experiment right here, right now where I can see them and I know that it’s a controlled situation.

I’m not saying this cannot work. There is of course always the neurological harm question, that does not go away no matter how your kid uses marijuana, if they’re on the young side.

I think it can make things pretty murky. And I think what it can do is it can get in the way of a teenager’s ability to blame their good behavior on their parent. If other kids know, your folks are the ones who will go to the dispensary and get, I’m going to use finger quotes, the good stuff, then it makes it really hard on the following weekend when a kid’s at somebody else’s house and somebody has some brownie, it makes it really hard for that kid to be like, “Oh, my parents might test me. Who knows?” Because they’re like, are you kidding? Last week we were smoking with your parents, right?

I stand by the idea that the best gift we can give our teenagers is that they can blame their good behavior, on us. And how we give them that gift is that we are not too flexible around these very, very tricky situations.

Reena Ninan:

When I think about wine, and especially when I was abroad, Europeans have such a different take on wine. It’s part of a glass, it’s not, and you do look at drinking abroad and it’s just not the same out of control thing it feels like for teens over there as it is here. I can’t explain it, right. Am I right about that assessment?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

No, I think that’s right. I think they have a different relationship with alcohol. I think again, it’s much more sort of integrated into healthy use forms. It’s part of meals, it’s part of just family life or daily life in a way that is not so restrictive.

The data on this are kind of mixed. We do see that it’s much, much better for teenagers to not drink until they’re older. There also are neurological ramifications of using alcohol. The main one, and this is interesting, and this also applies to thinking about any substance, teenagers feel everything more intensely than adults do both good and bad. One of the concerns is that, there are teenagers who really like the way alcohol makes them feel, or maybe marijuana makes them feel like that just, that experience, that pleasurable experience is heightened on account of them being a teenager. And we have some evidence that this actually lays the groundwork for substance problems down the line if experimentation begins in the adolescent years when people are having this sort of heightened reaction.

Reena Ninan:

So that’s another argument you can make by being exposed. Because with the wine thing, I’m just thinking, I’ve always thought to myself, okay, I wouldn’t mind if my kids have a glass, have a sip, have a taste, because then it’s not taboo. You can’t do that. No. I felt like coming from a family where things were a little bit more conservative, does that make a difference? But hearing you now say that kids exposed to it at an early age have that ultra sort of effect on them.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

They can.

Reena Ninan:

It could potentially,

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah.

Reena Ninan:

Okay.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

And that’s the thing. We don’t know. We don’t know. I actually, I’m almost allergic to alcohol. I can’t really, I mean, Reena I finally a couple of weeks ago, I was like, I’m just going to have a half glass of wine. I felt sick. I was up through the night. And so everybody’s biology is different.

And so what we don’t know is the biology our kid has. And so again, I’m not going to say that it’s incredibly damaging to kids to be like, here, you want a sip of wine? Actually, it’s what I have done in my own home, at times. And it’s what my parents did with me. I mean, I think that we all sort of have a lot of exposure to like, yeah, you can do that. And things don’t, the kid doesn’t burst into flames. But I do want people to be working with the fullness of the data. And I do want people to be aware that we have reason to be concerned about kids in this heightened emotionality state, being exposed to substances at a level where they’re going to get a reaction to it. And that could be very, very alluring to them.

Reena Ninan:

What else do you think, Lisa, parents should keep in mind when talking about the complications of pot and how much it’s changed from when we were in high school, quite frankly, and to hear you also say that it’s so much more potent than it was before?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

It’s interesting, because one of the ways this often comes up with kids is they’ll be like, well, did you do weed when you were a teenager? Right? I mean, it’s very common for kids to ask that question. And it’s interesting because every parent’s going to have a different answer. Every parent’s going to feel different about answering that question. Here are a range of answers that parents could potentially give.

So one answer is no, because I was serious about school, serious about sports, whatever. And I’m not saying something would’ve gone horribly wrong, but nothing did because I was not using. So that is one answer. Another answer is, I did, but I would not touch what’s out there now. What we were using that was JV stuff. This stuff is completely different. And I’m not saying what I did was necessarily that I would do it again, but I can tell you I definitely would not use what’s available now. That’s another answer. A third answer is, well, I did, and it’s because you know, grandma and grandpa, they’re not so on the ball. I was not so closely supervised as I should have been. You lucky kid, I am on the ball. I am totally on top of it. So there’s a variety of ways we can engage it.

Reena Ninan:

In your experience, what really works? To get kids to understand? Because they want to fit in, you’ve got the peer pressure component, which the letter writer here, the parent is saying, I get that. So much has changed with legality. So when it’s not legal, you think, “Hey, it’s, okay,” parents are using it and you know that they’re using it. It’s so confusing here. But how do you get through to really explain to them the seriousness of what this can be longterm?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah, it’s hard. Reena. I mean, I’m just going to say this is hard.

I’ll tell you, lemme start with what doesn’t work. I think what doesn’t work is actually overplaying one’s hand. I think if we say, if you touch the weed today, your brain damaged for life, right? Because the problem with our teenagers, and it’s not really a problem, it’s reality. They have their own data sets and they’re like, okay, the kid who’s actually getting an A in calculus, I know that kid’s doing lots of weed, right? So if we say these sort of severe blanket things and they have a competing example, which they often do.We’re done. They’re like, why should I take you seriously? Your facts don’t match my facts and I’m going to go with what I can see with my own eyes.

So I think as scary as the landscape is, and I feel like it’s so hard, I’m thinking about our listeners and having this very frightening episode about fentanyl and then saying, not too long on the heels of that, yeah, don’t overplay this, right? I mean, get that that is a really, really tricky thing.

So I think what works is to try to stick very close to the facts and close to the kids’ experience. And I think to say things like, look, I am not saying that if you smoke weed, you’re going to be instantly brain damaged or you’re going to die from a fentanyl poisoning. I’m not saying that. And obviously kids who are using weed and these things have not happened to them yet.

So owning that and being clear about that. But saying, I am saying, you’re putting yourself in a dicey position. As soon as you are engaged with substances of any kind, you are compromising your own safety. There is no question.

Minimally, you’re compromising your safety in the moment because now your judgment is gone, right? So if you’re at a party, you’re high, you’re drunk, you’re suddenly less safe, and there’s a very decent chance, especially with repeated use, that you’re going to do damage that cannot be undone. And I love you. I love all that lays ahead of you. I am so excited for your future. I think you’re excited for your future, and I don’t want you to see you make a choice at 14 that gets in the way of all that you want to do going forward.

Reena Ninan:

I wish I could have you show up in my kitchen saying this because it sounds so beautiful as you’re saying it, and it makes total sense. And I could see it working. I could totally see it working.

But I worry about the peer pressure component. I worry that I’m not armed with enough language, Lisa language, to help them be able to resist in that moment. And it’s just like with fentanyl, I feel like I just worry that it could be that one time that hearing you say today that it’s far more potent. I didn’t know that. I had no idea.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

It is way more potent. Okay, so here’s an interesting thing also that we can do as adults, and it sounds contradictory, but it totally works for teenagers.

You can say to them, we do not want you using. I do not want you using. Substances and brains are not good friends. Don’t mess with this stuff.

And you can say to them, if you find yourself at a party where all sorts of kids are using, let’s come up with a plan. And again, this is where finding ways for them to blame their good behavior on you, or they send you a hamburger emoji, and that means that you pick up the phone and you start screaming into it and they go, oh my gosh, I got to go, my parents are losing their minds. I mean, whatever it takes, say, I’ll get you out of it. And you say, if you make a bad decision and you use and you’re scared, we’re your first call. So I know it can sound like a mixed message of like, don’t use, but call us if you use. It is a mixed message. It is also your best bet for adolescent safety, I think.

Reena Ninan:

And they get that, they get the mixed message. They’re not confused by it?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Well, I think you can say, look, I understand. I’m telling you two things at once. Here is why: nothing matters more than your safety. So the number one thing you’re going to do to keep yourself safe is you’re not going to get anywhere near this stuff. If, who knows, you just make a bad call. The number two thing you’re going to do to keep yourself safe is you call me. I will come get you. I will make sure you are safe. Again, there’s no easy answers here, but we want one thing and one thing only, which is that our kids feel like we’re the one they want help from.

Reena Ninan:

And how do I cultivate that? What more can I say? Because you’re right. If they’re going to do it, if something’s going to happen, I want to be that first call.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

You want to be the one.

Reena Ninan:

But for so many parents, Lisa, we are not that first call. Why is that? How do we foster that and form that tie?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

So I think that the way we do it, I mean there’s lots of ways, but one of the key opportunities is when kids start talking about other kids using. And, this will happen. I remember with my older daughter, it started in eighth grade. She would talk about kids who were smoking weed in the eighth grade. And it’s so hard in that moment not to be like, “What?! Holy moly, what’s wrong with those kids?!” What you are doing if you react very strongly or in a very judgmental way, is you’re basically sending a message, like “If you find yourself down this road, you’re not going to want to call me.”

Okay? So here’s how I would ideally have the parent react in the moment. And then here’s how I would have a parent repair it. If they’re like, “Uh oh, I already did that thing.” So in the moment when your kid’s like, so half the soccer team smoking weed.

Sit on your “What?!” reaction and say, “Huh, what do you think?” Kids are bringing something up because they have a question about it. Kids don’t bring stuff up that they feel totally comfortable with. And it’s then you want your kid to say, “I don’t know, it seems kind of weird.” Or “I don’t know. Some of them are starting to look kind of fuzzy in class” or “I don’t know…” You want to have them spin out why they brought it up. That’s the ideal thing. And then you say, “Indeed, you are right. Let’s look this up. You’re observing something real.”

If you’ve already overreacted, you can repair this. You go back to your kid and say, you know what? You caught me at a funny moment when you mentioned the soccer team. I had a strong reaction. Tell me, something made you bring that up. Can we do a rewind? What was on your mind when you brought that up? Try to get back to that place. And then you can even say, look, I know I was judgy about those kids. You got to know nothing matters more than your safety. And if there’s any issue that you’re having, I will never make you sorry that you asked for my help. I will always be there for you.

Reena Ninan:

That is so good.

This is so helpful for me because we know that we need to do these things, but it’s the how. How do I do this in a way that gets through to them and they believe me that I’m not going to get angry. That your safety is number one?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah. Yeah. It’s not easy.

Reena Ninan:

It’s not easy.

Lisa, what do you have for us for Parenting To Go?

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Okay, this is something I said I would come back to, and this is such a key point. We need to remind our teenagers that legal and safe are not the same thing.

There are so many things, Reena, that are legal. Cigarettes are legal. Tanning beds are legal. These will kill you. And we know it. And I think that that’s where teenagers can get hung up sometimes around marijuana, which is, well, if it’s legal, it must be safe at some level, and we can point to these things that actually cause cancer, no question, need to be dealt with so carefully and say, do not look to the laws to give you guidance on what is safe. The laws don’t work like that. The laws are based on other things, but legal and safe are definitely not the same thing.

Reena Ninan:

It’s a great distinction to make and to get them to understand at an early age.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Absolutely.

Reena Ninan:

Thank you so much, Lisa. I am so excited about next week because we’re talking about something so many of you have written into us about, sleep.

How do you get your kids to sleep? We’ve got an absolutely fabulous expert, Lisa L. Lewis. She’s helped change the laws in California to get high schools to start later.

So we’re going to talk to her about all of that. So I’ll see you next week.

Dr. Lisa Damour:

Yeah, looking forward to it. See you next week.