What Should I Do When Other Parents Host Wild Parties?

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Reena Ninan:
Episode 208. What Should I Do When Other Parents Host Wild Parties?
Okay, this is a topic that I feel comes up often if you have high school kids and I’m glad we’re touching it.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Yeah, no, it’s a tricky one. This is a tricky one. And sometimes even late middle school kids, I hate to say it.

Reena Ninan:
Right.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
It could go across younger grades than one might expect.

Reena Ninan:
I want to get right into this letter for you.
Hi, Dr. Lisa. I’m also a licensed clinical psychologist and I’m thrilled that a colleague recommended your books to me. I discovered your podcast and you are such a gem. Here’s my question for you. What are your thoughts on parties being thrown by the parents of teenagers during which kids aren’t just sneaking alcohol in but parents are providing it? So far, I’ve elected just keep my mouth shut and I try to just talk to my own kids as much as possible. And I’ve even shared with them about hot and cold cognition. My teen came home from what we thought was a parent supervised New Year’s Eve party and was uncomfortable and upset about the number of kids drinking, vaping, and engaging in overtly sexual behavior. Since parents aren’t terribly receptive, do you feel like schools need to do a better job of addressing these concerns? What else might be done to keep kids safe? As always, thanks for your wise and very reasonable insights and recommendations. That’s a really nice letter. It’s a great letter. Now tell me what, give me your take on this, and I love that this is a psychologist writing into you and the hot cold cognition. We need to get into all of this.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Yes. Okay, so this is not good. This is not good. And there are several ways to slice it. I’m just going to say this out of the gate, it has to be said. This is also so illegal. It is very clear. In most communities there are what we call social hosting laws, which is basically you’re not allowed to serve other people’s kids alcohol or other stuff. So why are parents doing this? I will always go with the assumption that people come from a well-meaning place, that it, it’s well meant. Even if I disagree with it and the law disagrees with it, it’s still well meant. I think the general rationale is if they’re going to do it anyway, they should do it where I can see it and keep an eye on things. That’s the rationale. I don’t know that that actually does keep kids safer. It makes me very anxious. We also have lots of stories in the news of kids leaving those parties and either getting hurt or hurting somebody else. So clearly that is not safe and not okay. And also the parent who allowed drinking interestingly, and let’s note this, even if they weren’t home, this is also interesting that the laws in many places extend to even if you’re not home, if you could have theoretically known kids were drinking at your house, you are liable for this. I think it’s a felony charge. This is really, really not well regarded by the law. I mean, it is not an area where there’s a lot of room to work.

Reena Ninan:
I want to step back and talk about liability for a second. I think this is a big piece of it all that I was unaware of before we did this podcast. I know state by state it can be different, but overwhelmingly, Lisa, if you were to make just a general broad assumption of the laws of where are parents held liable, most likely?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Case by case situation, we’re not lawyers, but they can absolutely be held liable if a minor consumes things that they’re not supposed to be consuming at that age in their home, the parents could even be away and if theoretically they could have known or prevented it, I think there’s liability.

Reena Ninan:
So just basic boilerplate for every parent to start off with. Just knowing simply a friend of your child’s could come over drink at your house and you can still be held liable even if you didn’t know that was happening.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Yes.

Reena Ninan:
People can come after you.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
If someone gets hurt. I mean, I think there has to be harm.

Reena Ninan:
Of course. Yes.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
If there’s harm, yeah, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. You can hear, I get like, ugh about this. But I also think, okay, but then how can we use this to be really helpful to us? So part of what this letter writer is like, give me a reality check on this. What’s a person supposed to do? I agree with the letter writer. They may have tried to reach out to the parents who are hosting and being like, please, what are you doing? And there’s a line in the letter, not receptive. Okay, I’m not all that surprised.
But at least in conversations with her own kids, she can pull up the local laws and be like, look, I don’t agree with what that family is doing. And just to be clear, nor does our state, that’s not nothing. Because I think sometimes in parenting when we, there’s other places where we see parents doing stuff that we don’t agree with and our kids are like, well, who’s right? And we can sort of make our argument, but our kids are like, yeah, I still think it’d be great if I got a Porshe at 16 or whatever it is that kid wants. Whereas at least on this one in black and white, you can say, look, what they are doing is not even legal. And I think that’s reassuring to kids because fundamentally I think kids want the adults to act like adults. And so seeing that the law is stipulating that what these parents are doing who are hosting is actually not considered appropriate, is reassuring to kids.

Reena Ninan:
I want to ask you a little bit about if you know that there is going to be drinking at a party, how should parents proceed? Should you even allow your kid to go? I mean there’s a whole social component of it too. In high school and middle school.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I mean this is where it gets really tricky because as much as I want to say no, don’t let kids go to parties where there’s drinking. One of the things I’ve learned along the way is, but often that is their social life or that’s the social life that they want to have or bluntly, that’s the social life they’re going to sneak if you don’t let it be something that’s a bit out in the open. So I think it is very hard pragmatically to say to a kid, you are never to go to a party where there is drinking. I think that’s actually a very hard thing to ask of kids. I actually think it’s an enormously hard thing to enforce. I also think there will come a time when kids are going to be able to do whatever they want, say they go to college.
And so if one goes along with this line of reasoning at some level, you can’t control this. I would so much rather make it an open line of communication with your kid about alcohol, about when it is safe, about when it’s unsafe. And I would say above all, rather than treating the safety coming from, I the parent am going to stop you from doing what I don’t want you to do. Treating the safety is coming from, I the parent am going to be your partner in safety and we’re going to have open lines of communication. And also we’re going to have such a good thing going that if you are anxious at a party, you call me and I’ll come get you.

Reena Ninan:
So be a partner versus dictating how they should conduct their behavior.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I love the idea that we could be like, here are the rules. They will keep you safe. If I thought that would work, Reena, Safety and teenagers, those are my favorite things in the whole world. Right?

Reena Ninan:
It’s true. It’s true.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I love that. I wish there were such straightforward ways to keep teenagers safe. But the thing is they leave the house. They have friends who drive. They themselves may drive. I mean at some level you lose a measure of control and that’s so hard. It’s so hard. So where does your control continue to lie? There are two things that make a huge difference in terms of teen safety, having rules that make sense, talking with them about why you don’t want them drinking at parties, that it is not a safe thing to do. And then having such a good relationship that even if the kid does do something dumb, you’re their first call. Right, that those are the guardrails.

Reena Ninan:
Totally.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Those are the guardrails.

Reena Ninan:
Now remind me again, in this letter they talk about hot and cold cognition. Tell me this psychologist has talked to their kids about hot and cold cognition. Remind me again what that is and why that could be useful.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Okay, well, so this is file this under why teenagers can be terrifying to raise. Okay, so basically teenagers have two different cognitive systems. They have cold cognition, which is good light of day reasoning where they reason we reason. So your kid’s like, I’m going over to Molly’s house tonight, and you’re like, ah, will there be drinking at Molly’s house? And they’re like, well, since you’re asking and we have a good relationship, the answer is yes. And you say, I don’t want you drinking at this party. Parties make me anxious for drinking. You can go, but I want you to stay sober because things can always go sideways at a party and your kid at 4:00 PM in your kitchen is like, I agree, I agree. I am not going to drink. I’m going to hold the beer. If I hold anything and I’m not going to drink, they mean it they mean it they have all their good reasoning on board. Then they go to the party and this is where hot cognition kicks in. Hot cognition is cognition that is informed by social forces. So they get to the party and they’re like, walk in thinking I’m not going to drink. And then they get there and they’re like, oh, everybody’s drinking.

Reena Ninan:
Totally.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
What’s one? What’s one? So it flips and this is scary. It’s something we can work with. It’s something we can work with. And I think the way to work with it is in the cold cognition situation, you prepare for the hot cognition situation. So the kid who says, I’m not drinking, you say, that is fantastic. What if when you get there, everybody’s drinking or a kid you really like and respect asks you if you want a beer? What’s the plan? So under cold cognition situations, you make a hot cognition plan.

Reena Ninan:
So what do you do if you’re one of the parents who don’t believe that supplying kids in middle school or high school with alcohol is really the thing to do, even though the rationale for some of the parents might be, it’s better under my own roof than somewhere else in some back parking lot. What’s your advice to parents who feel that way and really don’t want their kids to go but also understand the social piece of it, that getting together is important?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I think there’s a few ways to deal with this. I mean, one is you could try and it sounds like this parent has tried reaching out to the other families. I am not surprised she’s found it to be unsuccessful. But I can imagine scenarios where maybe there’s a long-term relationship or a gentle situation where you say, I understand you guys were serving last week. That puts the rest of us in a really tricky position. Can we think about something else?

Reena Ninan:
But I feel like you know how she’s now going to be gossiped around on time. Can you believe she called me and said, don’t do this, and I’m doing her a favor by hosting all these people,

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Keeping her kids safe, who could be running around town. Exactly.

Reena Ninan:
They just don’t, it’s like ideology, right? I think.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
You’re right. I think it’s a low likelihood.

Reena Ninan:
So I feel like I can’t do that. I can’t go to them, but I understand the social currency here of being invited to a party and wanting to go, but I worry about what if the cops show up and my kids drinking?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
That’s a great question. So okay, cops can show up at these things and cops get called to these things for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes other parents call and they’re like down in the street, I know there is a family hosting. I mean, people can do what they want to do, but sometimes that’s how the cops know about these things. Reena, I think it gets to something really core, which is you’re responsible for your kid, you’re responsible for your kid. And I as a parent, I’ve had serious misgivings about other people’s parenting choices, and one of the things that I have really come to appreciate is you can’t, short of child protective services level stuff, you can’t really dictate how other people parent. You just can’t.
And that’s painful at times. That’s also a reality, but you are responsible for your kid’s safety. So I think if you have a kid whose social life involves going to parties like this, and if you feel like you’re stuck in this, I don’t want to tell ’em they can’t have their social life and I don’t love them being at parties. Conversation, conversation, conversation. And I think the way you start that conversation is basically what I just said, which is I get it that this is where your social life sits and this is where your friends are and this is what you want to do. You safety means more to me than anything in the world. I need to feel confident in your safety before I can say yes. Talk me through it, talk me through it. That’s a nice cold cognition conversation. That’s basically like I’m on your side both from the social side and from the safety side, but since you don’t want me going to this party with you, how are you managing both?

Reena Ninan:
Do you give your child advice if the police show up, what do you do? My advice is run from the back door, run, run, run, run.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Take off running.
They can only bring so many police. They certainly, you’re faster than many of them. Yeah, that’s good parenting. Yeah, that’s exactly like things are going well. When your kid is out running a cop.
I think you say to your kid, here’s a situation you could be at that party given that what they are doing is illegal. I mean truly whether the parents are there or not, it’s illegal for a whole bunch of minors to be drinking. It’s not outside the realm of possibility. The cops could show up. What happens then? Talk me through your plan. What happens then? Right? I mean, again, this is what I just recommended. Under cold cognition situations plan for the hot moment. What happens if the cops show up? What happens if the cops show up and you’ve got a beer?

Reena Ninan:
Could my kid be arrested for that?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I think, it’s not great. It’s not great.
I think there are conditions where cops can take kids with them to a safe location, whatever that is in your community. The reality is, the way I actually would size this up is parties plus drinking, plus cops, things can go sideways, quickly. Parties plus drinking things can go sideways, quickly. Parties plus drinking, plus cops, things could go sideways quickly. So we can imagine a situation where a kid feels like they’re not being disrespectful. The cop does feel like they’re being disrespectful, and this does not go well. Unfortunately, we have a lot of evidence that the police do not treat everyone equally, and so there are communities that are more vulnerable than others based on skin and color and other factors. As we talk this through wholly moly, this is rich for important conversations at home about, let’s imagine if things don’t go the way you hope they’re going to go.

Reena Ninan:
I think the cops are coming for you.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
There’s actually a cop car going down the road near my office. Timing couldn’t even be better timing even play on that. That was amazing. That was amazing.

Reena Ninan:
I don’t know if the cops agree with you or disagree with what you’re saying, but they’re coming for you. They’re coming for you, Lisa.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Luckily I am at this moment quite sober.

Reena Ninan:
Yeah. Lisa, one of the things that this parent raises is should the schools be more involved? I want you to talk not to the parents, but to school administrators for a second. Is there anything that schools can do to help in this situation?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
It’s interesting, Reena, it depends on the kind of school. So public schools can do almost nothing. Public schools cannot

Reena Ninan:
Legally?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Legally. They can’t make rules about what you do in your private life. Private schools can. Private schools can make a lot of rules. They can make, I wouldn’t say almost any rule they want, but they’re private schools. They can do what they want. They can dictate what happens at home and what happens in your social life. Lots of private schools have handbooks in terms of rules about what it means to be a member of that private school community.
And lots of private schools detail things like you cannot host parties at your home and serve alcohol to minors.

Reena Ninan:
That is point blank. That’s part of the rules.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Point blank. It’s absolutely in their rules.
Now, this is not easy, even when the school has it all spelled out, because they’re not judge and jury, they’re not going to call families and be like, Hey, the word on the street is that your hosting, we’re kicking your kid out. I mean, there’s a kid involved. I mean, it’s not like having the rule sort of suddenly makes us very, very clear and easy and manageable. But I will say in private school communities, that is a place where there is a little leverage. And so families who are aware that this is happening can call the school and be looking at the handbook, looking at where my kid was on Saturday night. I know this happened. That said, knowing lots of private school administrators, this is still wildly tricky, but it also sometimes turns into a conversation with the school and the family where they ask the family come in and say, okay, we are getting a lot of calls that you all are hosting. This is not in line with our agreement about what it means to have your kid at this school. This is a warning that if we keep hearing about this, it may turn into a problem. That’s the kind of thing schools can do. Again, not easy, and having spent a lot of time in schools, it’s not something that I find the families are like, we’re so glad you’ve called us to talk about this. It doesn’t usually go over very well.

Reena Ninan:
Especially if your parenting style is different and you feel differently about introducing your child to alcohol or exposing him.
So Lisa, as we step back and we visited a lot of different things in this episode, what is it that you want parents to keep in mind when they’re having this conversation with their kids about drinking and parties?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
There’s something about the way you phrase it. How do we want to approach the conversation? So I’m saying conversation, conversation, conversation. And you’re asking what do you want them to keep in mind when they’re actually having the conversation? What I want them to keep in mind is the kid’s in a bad spot too. I think we as parents feel like, oh man, that other family’s putting us in such a bad spot. They’re having all the good time at their house and it’s dangerous and my kid wants to be there. That is true. It puts us in a bad spot. There’s no question about it. It puts the kid in a bad spot. What we are hearing from this letter is the kid is coming back from these parties saying, it was so weird. I did not like it felt uncomfortable. And so what is wonderful is if the kid themselves is in a bad spot and that kid is articulating it, the parent can say, I don’t love it, but I also can tell it’s not so great for you that you want to be there and it doesn’t feel safe. How can you resolve that? How can I help you resolve that to treat it as a true problem the kid has as opposed to just something that is problematic for the parent.

Reena Ninan:
So when we think of the problem, obviously as us being in a horrible spot and knowing this won’t be good for our kids, we don’t sometimes think of the emotions the kids are going through in that moment and how we can help them walk off the ledge that they might also want a hand to walk off the ledge,

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Right. So the kid who comes home and says, I thought this was going to be a tame event, turned out it was out of control and more than one way and family was there. That is scary. I think that is a great moment to say, alright, if it happens again, what can you do to get yourself to a place where you’re not uncomfortable? Do you want to call me and have me be grouchy loud enough on the phone that you can just blame it on me, that you got to leave? What’s the plan here? But starting from the position of this puts the kid in a very bad spot. Now, of course, we also have to picture the kid because teenagers are a wonderfully diverse group where the kid is like, no, I don’t feel unsafe. I totally love it. It’s a great party. It’s a really good time.
I’m not in conflict about it at all. Right? We have to be very mindful of that. I think that that’s the moment where the fallback position for the parent is, okay, I hear you that you don’t feel uncomfortable about this. You say the words for why I feel uncomfortable. Get that kid to articulate. Get them to articulate it, get it totally helps. Because if they have to voice it, well, here’s what you think. If they have to say it with their own mouth, usually it does help them get a little bit more aware. And then if the kid’s like cannot come up with any reason why anybody should be concerned, then you’re like, all right, you’re staying home. I think that that part of the freedom to go to places where it may be a little dicey is trusting that that kid has a handle on why there’s grounds for concern.
If you have a kid who’s like, Nope, full steam ahead, all gas, no breaks, then you’re like, yeah, yeah, your friends are coming over here. You’re not going over there.

Reena Ninan:
So Lisa, what do you have first for Parenting to Go?

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I’m sure I’ve said this before, but this is worth saying again. I think at any point in life, but especially with teenagers, every one of us should turn to our kid and say, I will never ever make you sorry that you asked for my help. It can happen that a kid can be like, I’m not going to drink, get to the party. I’m not going to drink, drinks. You still want that kid to call you, even though they have done exactly what you’ve asked them not to do, and exactly the opposite of what they said they would do. You are still the person that should be their first call.

Reena Ninan:
I will never ever make you feel sorry for asking for my help.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Yep.

Reena Ninan:
Repeat that to your child.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
You’ll never regret asking for my help.

Reena Ninan:
You’ll never regret asking for my help. Oh boy. This is a heavy one. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you for walking us through because this is an issue. I think it’s part of the teenage years for so many families and having a plan I think really helps. Before walking into this cold, Lisa, next week we’re going to have Ethan Cross come on to talk about his new book.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
Yep. He’s a wonderful psychologist, a brilliant writer, and a really fun guy to talk to.

Reena Ninan:
The book is called Shift, and I’ll see you next week.

Dr. Lisa Damour:
I’ll see you next week.